ConferenceCall 2010 03 25

= Joint SIO-OOR-Ontolog Panel Discussion: "Getting the SIO Project Going" - Thu 25-Mar-2010 =

This is a joint SIO-OOR-Ontolog Panel Session for the community who wants to see a community-wide sharing and integration of ontologies. This session follows from the 16-Mar-2010 post [[OntologySummit] session] during which the new "Shared and Integrated Ontologies (SIO)" project was officially born.


 * Chair: Dr. JohnSowa (Vivomind Intelligence)


 * Panelists:
 * Dr. MatthewWest (Information Junction)
 * Dr. PatCassidy (Micra)
 * Professor MichaelGruninger (U of Toronto)
 * Professor JohnBateman (U of Bremen)
 * Mr. MikeDean (Raytheon BBN)
 * Mr. PeterYim (Ontolog; CIM3)


 * Archive:
 * Abstract
 * Agenda & Proceedings
 * Prepared presentation material can be accessed by clicking on each of the title links below:
 * [ 1-Yim ] . [ 2-West ] . [ 3-Cassidy ] . [ 4-Gruninger ] . [ 5-Bateman (ppt) ] . [ 6-Sowa ] . [ 7-Dean ]
 * A Draft SIO Project Charter by JohnSowa
 * A Synopsis of this session by JohnSowa
 * [ Audio Recording of the session ]
 * [ Transcript of the online chat session ] during the panel discussion
 * Other Resources
 * Join the SIO Project effort!

Conference Call Details

 * Date: Thursday, 25-March-2010 
 * Start Time: 10:30am PDT / 1:30pm EDT / 6:30pm CET / 5:30pm GMT / 17:30 UTC (updated - sorry folks! =ppy)
 * see world clock for other time zones
 * Expected Call Duration: ~2.0 hours
 * Dial-in Number:
 * from a US telephone (US): +1-218-844-8060 (domestic long distance cost will apply)
 * When calling in from a phone, use Conference ID: "4389979#"
 * from Europe, call:
 * Austria 0820-4000-1577
 * Belgium 070-35-9992
 * France 0826-100-280
 * Germany 01805-00-7642
 * Ireland 0818-270-037
 * Italy 848-390-179
 * Spain 0902-886-056
 * Switzerland 0848-560-327
 * UK 0844-581-9148
 * callers from other countries please dial into either one of the US or European numbers


 * Shared-screen support (VNC session) will be started 5 minutes before the call at: http://vnc2.cim3.net:5800/
 * view-only password: "ontolog"
 * if you plan to be logging into this shared-screen option (which the speaker may be navigating), and you are not familiar with the process, please try to call in 5 minutes before the start of the session so that we can work out the connection logistics. Help on this will generally not be available once the presentation starts.
 * people behind corporate firewalls may have difficulty accessing this. If that is the case, please download the slides above and running them locally. The speaker(s) will prompt you to advance the slides during the talk.


 * Discussions and Q & A:
 * (Unless the conference host has already muted everyone) Please mute your phone, by pressing "*2" on your phone keypad, when a presentation is in progress. To un-mute, press "*3"
 * You can type in your questions or comments through the browser based  chat session by:
 * pointing a separate browser tab (or window) to http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room and enter: Room="ontolog_20100325" and My Name="Your Own Name" (e.g. "JaneDoe")
 * or point your browser to: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/ontolog_20100325
 * instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field). You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen.
 * (when everyone is muted) If you want to speak or have questions or remarks to make, 'please "raise your hand (virtually)" by click on the "hand button" (lower right) on the chat session page. You may speak when acknowledged by the speaker or the session moderator (again, press "*3" on your phone to unmute). Test your voice and introduce yourself first before proceeding with your remarks, please.'' (Please remember to click on the "hand button" again (to lower your hand) and press "*2" on your phone to mute yourself after you are done speaking.)
 * thanks to the soaphub.org folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) ontolog_20100325@soaphub.org ... Handy for mobile devices!


 * Please review our Virtual Session Tips and Ground Rules - see: VirtualSpeakerSessionTips


 * RSVP to [mailto:peter.yim@cim3.com peter.yim@cim3.com] appreciated.


 * This session, like all other Ontolog events, is open to the public. Information relating to this session is shared on this wiki page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2010_03_25


 * Please note that this session will be recorded, and the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content to our community membership and the public at-large under our prevailing open IPR policy.


 * To participate in OntologySummit2010 virtual discourse, please refer to details here.

Attendees:

 * Attended:
 * JohnSowa (Chair) (possibly joining after the first 30 min.)
 * PatCassidy
 * PeterYim
 * MatthewWest (first 30 min.)
 * JohnBateman
 * MikeDean
 * Lyn Niemeyer (US Navy)
 * CarlosRueda
 * KenBaclawski
 * PhilMurray
 * BartGajderowicz
 * HaroldSolbrig
 * ArturoSanchez
 * MattHettinger
 * BrianHaugh
 * MichaelGruninger
 * AliHashemi
 * KevinKeck
 * BruceBargmeyer
 * GaryBergCross
 * TerryPatten
 * CameronRoss
 * Maureen Matkovich (IIA)
 * AmandaVizedom (first 45 min.; will attend remainder asynchronously!)
 * PavithraKenjige
 * DarrenOng
 * AlexGarcia
 * PierreGrenon
 * MikeBennett
 * TorstenHahmann


 * Expecting:
 * NicolaGuarino (first 30 min.)
 * DeniseBedford
 * ... if you are coming to the session, please add your name above (plus your affiliation, if you aren't already a member of the community) above; or e-mail  so that we can reserve enough resources to support everyone's participation. ...


 * Regrets:
 * ToddSchneider
 * LeoObrst
 * PatHayes

Resources

 * Session when the SIO Project was founded - ConferenceCall_2010_03_16
 * JohnSowa's "Sharing and Integrating Ontologies" synthesis report - http://www.jfsowa.com/ontology/sionto.htm
 * Email discussion - the theme has been brewing in the ontolog forum for years, and recently seriously pursued, starting roughly on 30-Jan-2010 in an [ontolog-forum] thread under the subject: "Foundation ontology, CYC, and Mapping" which has since accumulated hundreds of rigorous and thought provoking exchanges ... see:
 * http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/2010-01/threads.html
 * http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/2010-02/threads.html
 * http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontolog-forum/2010-03/threads.html
 * Relating Upper Ontologies - UpperOntologySummit and UpperOntologySummit/UosJointCommunique
 * Open Ontology Repositories & Registries - OntologySummit2008 and OntologySummit2008_Communique
 * The developing Sharing and Integrating Ontologies (SIO) Project Homepage - http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?SharedIntegratedOntologies

Background: Sharing and Integrating Ontologies

 * Session Topic: Getting the SIO Project Going


 * The challenge of relating ontologies so that the instance data associated with the ontologies can effectively interoperate has been researched and debated for a long time -- seriously for the last decade, and arguably, for the past six decades since the inception of artificial intelligence, or, some would even say, that this has been going on for millennia.


 * Informed by the UpperOntologySummit (2006) dialog, with support from the OntologySummit2008 as well as the OpenOntologyRepository work, and prompted by rigorous discussion on the [ontolog-forum] mailing list over the past 2~3 months, which JohnSowa synthesized by drawing upon his "lattice of theories" and other related approaches. The community has finally made a leap into starting a project to implement some of the ideas that have been considered. The result is the founding of the "Shared and Integrated Ontologies (SIO)" project as the conclusion of our recent 16-Mar-2010 post [[OntologySummit] session].


 * In this session, we try to get the perspectives from some of the key players who were in those earlier conversations, and hopefully, draw up a Charter to get this SIO project work started, in a way the community wants to drive it.

Agenda & Proceedings:
Session Topic: Getting the SIO Project Going


 * Session Format & Agenda: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call:
 * 1. Opening - PeterYim / JohnSowa ... [ slides ]
 * 2. Panelists perspectives - PeterYim, PatCassidy, MichaelGruninger, MatthewWest, JohnBateman, JohnSowa & MikeDean (6 min. each) ... [ slides ]
 * 3. Presentation of the draft SIO Project Charter - JohnSowa (8 min.)
 * 4. Q & A and open discussion - All (~30 min.) ... please refer to process above
 * 5. Adoption of SIO Charter (if we have consensus) - JohnSowa / PeterYim ... (deferred to discussion on [ontolog-forum]!)
 * 6. Conclusion / Follow-up - JohnSowa / PeterYim

Transcript of the online chat during the session:
see raw transcript here.

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.) Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.

-- begin of chat session --

PeterYim: . Welcome to the Joint SIO-OOR-Ontolog Panel Discussion: "Getting the SIO Project Going" - Thu 25-Mar-2010


 * Chair: Dr. JohnSowa (Vivomind Intelligence)

o Dr. MatthewWest (Information Junction) o Dr. NicolaGuarino (LAO-CNR) o Dr. PatCassidy (Micra) o Professor MichaelGruninger (U of Toronto) o Professor JohnBateman (U of Bremen) o Mr. MikeDean (Raytheon-BBN) o Mr. PeterYim (Ontolog; CIM3)
 * Panelists:

anonymous morphed into HaroldSolbrig

anonymous2 morphed into MattHettinger

anonymous1 morphed into BartGajderowicz

BartGajderowicz: @PeterYim, are the slides for 3-Guarino and 7-Dean available?

anonymous1 morphed into KevinKeck

anonymous morphed into Lyn Niemeyer

anonymous morphed into PavithraKenjige

CameronRoss: hello

PeterYim: @Bart - no, we don't have slides from NicolaGuarino and MikeDean ... some panelists may choose to make their remarks without slides ... I have urged them (and everyone) to document the points they are making on this chat-board, though

GaryBergCross: I expect that someone will define "shared" and "integrated" in the SIO title so we are clear on the goal.

PeterYim: @Gary - that would be a good question for JohnSowa ... he named this project "SIO"

ArturoSanchez: @Michael: is there an ontology which defines "meta-data" (as you called them) terms?

PhilMurray: Gotta go (2:10). Very interesting. Let me know how I might help.

KevinKeck: Did I miss a discussion of why it should be named "shared and integrated" rather than sharing and integrating? I personally rather like the latter, as in the title of John's motivating presentation.

PeterYim: @PhilMurray - thank you ... we'll probably be starting a new [sio-forum] mailing list; I will subscribe everyone who participated today ... see you there!

PeterYim: @Kevin - we did not have such a conversation

KevinKeck: To the extent that we are developing "scripts" and methods in addition to ontologies, I think the -ing form is preferable.

PeterYim: @Kevin - let's bring that up during the Q&A/open-discussion segment ... since JohnSowa took the lead on this effort, we did say (during the Mar-16 meeting) to let him make the call on how to label this effort

ArturoSanchez: Wow! What a good interoperability example!! Destiny is laughing at us now

anonymous1 morphed into JohnBateman

GaryBergCross: Missing the Spring time change has a bit more bite when you are trying to make a plane flight back to the US as happended to me last year.

JohnBateman: I think I'm doing well when I manage to remember to get the spring/fall time change right in just *one* timezone, let alone several!

PeterYim: @MatthewWest, NicolaGuarino, JohnBateman, AlexGarcia - my apologies for having posted the wrong start time for our colleagues from Europe (the US has moved over to Daylight Saving Time on Mar-14, but Europe is still on "standard time" until Mar-2

Lyn Niemeyer: Thank you so much for allowing me to listen in. I have to move on, but I am enthused that this group is looking at ontology inter-operability while the ontology concept is still in the craft stage. I can't offer much expertise in this area as my work is on a much more lay-level, however I intend to keep tabs on your work! Have a beautiful day.

anonymous1 morphed into PierreGrenon

PeterYim: @Lyn Niemeyer - thank you very much for participating today, Lyn

KevinKeck: Slide #20 made me think of OMG's ODM.

KevinKeck: (and John's comments on the mailing list of integrating with mainstream tools)

PeterYim: JohnSowa: suggest that JohnBateman or other folks to work on the ability to translate to UML

MikeBennett: Indeed, I thought ODM had quie a lot of traction.

HaroldSolbrig: ODM, however, has a risk. Many people think that converting a UML information model to OWL gives ontology...

HaroldSolbrig: ... but the only ontology you get is about tables (e.g. parents are optional, but all people inherently have SSN's...)

MikeBennett: Not if you use ODM properly - if defines a complete metamodel, which can be implemented. Of course that doesn't guarantee that's what built is an ontology, but to the same extent that having something in OWL doesn't guarantee that it's an ontology.

HaroldSolbrig: The problem is that, by and large, UML models data. It is very strange to hear the claims these days about what sorts of ontology now exists, thanks to ODM conversions of implementation models.

HaroldSolbrig: And even more interesting to see what they assert...

MikeBennett: Well I don't know about that but I know that I have been able to use ODM (in an early draft) to create a workable ontology using a UML tool. It's down to having a clear approach to meaning, but that seems clear enough in OWL as it is. I don't see what difference the toolset makes at the level of the ontology content (obviously it makes a difference in terms of URIs etc.).

MikeBennett: Anyway "UML models data" is a bit like saying "paper creates charcoal sketches".

HaroldSolbrig: I realize I misspoke - UML tends to be used to model data.

HaroldSolbrig: We are just frustrated because folks are taking shortcuts - on the basis that now that they've got the ODM, there is no longer need for ontology modeling. They've already got it.

CameronRoss: @JohnBateman: Does the HETS GPL-like license support its use within commercial applications?

HaroldSolbrig: A risk that I think this community needs to be aware of...

MikeBennett: @Harold fair point. I think the theoretical framework is as important regardless of what tools or syntax are used

JohnBateman: Example of relabelling: see my slide 12, where we see CASL *parameterisation*. There we have the abstract generalized mereology theory GENMEREOLOGY which is reused for time (T), space (S) and perdurants (PD). This is exactly the kind of useful relabelling meant and shows how (a) it is already used in ontology design and (b) is fully supported by HETS structuring methods.

MikeBennett: Certified - in light of the above notes on ODM, should this include some sanity check on there being a workable theory of meaning inthe ontology in the first place?

PeterYim: @MikeDean ... missed you calling in earlier, please make your remarks right after JohnSowa finishes ... (we only have about 15 minutes left)

MikeDean: @PeterYim - sounds good

MikeDean: Mike Dean is one of the co-conveners of OOR, along with Peter Yim and Leo Obrst

MikeDean: I'd like to echo Peter Yim's comments about the value of this effort and bridging between related communities

MikeDean: OOR is pleased to support SIO

MikeDean: good opportunity to attract more OOR users and developers

MikeDean: We look forward to further collaboration!

PeterYim: folks: one more mishap on today's session ... the audio recording will only be for this last segment (the last 20~30 minutes only ... the earlier presentations didn't make it in) ... sorry! ... I will be contacting the earlier speakers and try to get a recording of their talks offline, and then edit those back into the session recording.

PeterYim: JohnSowa: re-labeling the project "Sharing and Integrating Ontologies"

PeterYim: new mailing list: [sio-dev] to address the next level of granularity

PeterYim: the overall conversation on "Sharing and Integrating Ontologies" will stay on the [ontolog-forum] list

PeterYim: JohnSowa will start a thread on [ontolog-forum] to work up the SIO Project Charter

PeterYim: thank you everyone, for the participation ... great session!

PeterYim: -- session ended: 2010.03.25-12:38 --

-- end of chat session --


 * ... More Questions
 * For those who have further questions or remarks on the topic, please post them to the [ontolog-forum] or the new [sio-dev] mailing lists so that everyone in the community can benefit from the discourse ... see the next section (below) on how you can participate, if you aren't already a member of the community.)

An Open Invitation
If you are among those who want to see the sharing and integration of ontologies as an enabler for improved information and data interoperability, we cordially invite you to join us in this new "Shared and Integrated Ontologies (SIO)" project community.


 * To participate in SIO virtual discourse, please refer to details [ here]

Audio Recording of this Session

 * To download the audio recording of the session, click here
 * the playback of the audio files require the proper setup, and an MP3 compatible player on your computer.
 * Conference Date and Time:	25-Mar-2010 10:38am ~ 12:38pm Pacific Daylight Time
 * Duration of Recording:	1 Hour 19 Minutes
 * Recording File Size:	       9.0 MB (in mp3 format)


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 * Take a look, also, at the rich body of knowledge that this community has built together, over the years, by going through the archives of noteworthy past Ontolog events. (References on how to subscribe to our podcast can also be found there.)

For the record ...

How To Join (while the session is in progress)

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