ConferenceCall 2012 03 22

= OntologySummit2012: Session-11 - Thu 2012-03-22 =

Summit Theme: OntologySummit2012: "Ontology for Big Systems"

Track (1&2) Title: Ontology for Big Systems & Systems Engineering

Track Co-champions: Dr. MatthewWest and Dr. HensonGraves

Session Topic: Big Systems: The ontology of System Components, and System Modelling Language Requirements

Session Chair: Dr. MatthewWest ... intro-slides

Panel Briefings from:


 * Dr. NicolaGuarino (IAOA; ISTC-CNR LOA, Italy) - "Functional roles and their realizations" - slides
 * Mr. ChrisPartridge (BORO Solutions, UK) - " 'System Components' as a litmus test for your ontological architecture " - slides
 * Mr. DavidLeal (CAESAR Systems, UK), presented by Dr. MatthewWest (Information Junction, UK) - "Some thoughts on requirements for languages in engineering" - slides
 * Dr. HensonGraves (Algos Associates, US) - "Using Ontology to Meet Big Systems Challenges" - slides

Archives:


 * Abstract
 * Agenda
 * Prepared presentation material (slides) can be accessed by clicking on each of the title links below:
 * [ 0-Chair ] . [ 1-Guarino ] . [ 2-Patridge ] . [ 3-Leal (West) ] . [ 4-Graves ]
 * Audio recording of the session [ 1:40:52 ; mp3 ; 11.55 MB ]
 * transcript of the online chat during the session
 * Additional Resources

Conference Call Details

 * Date: Thursday, 22-Mar-2012
 * Start Time: 9:30am PDT / 12:30pm EDT / 5:30pm CET / 16:30 UTC
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Attendees

 * Attended:
 * MatthewWest (chair)
 * NicolaGuarino
 * ChrisPartridge
 * HensonGraves
 * PeterYim
 * AliHashemi
 * AmandaVizedom
 * AnatolyLevenchuk
 * BobSchloss
 * ChristopherSpottiswoode
 * DavidFlater
 * DougFoxvog
 * ElizabethFlorescu
 * EricChan
 * ErnieLucier
 * FrankOlken
 * GaryBergCross
 * HasanSayani
 * HenryBroodney
 * JackRing
 * JeffreyWallk
 * JimKirby
 * JoelBender
 * JohnBilmanis
 * KathyEllis
 * LinePouchard
 * MatthewKHettinger
 * PavithraKenjige
 * PercySalas
 * RafaelPena
 * RamSriram
 * RexBrooks
 * SimonSpero
 * SteveRay
 * TerryLongstreth
 * ToddSchneider
 * TomTinsley
 * VictorAgroskin
 * FOUGHALI


 * Expecting:
 * MatthewWest (chair)
 * HensonGraves
 * NicolaGuarino
 * ChrisPartridge
 * DavidLeal (in absentia)
 * PeterYim
 * JoelBender
 * JohnBilmanis
 * HasanSayani
 * BobSchloss
 * DavidFlater
 * TerryLongstreth
 * MatthewKHettinger
 * ChristopherSpottiswoode
 * JeffreyWallk
 * TomTinsley
 * AmandaVizedom
 * PavithraKenjige
 * GaryBergCross (Gary Berg-Cross)
 * (please add yourself to the list if you are a member of the Ontolog or OntologySummit community, or, rsvp to )


 * Regrets:
 * DavidLeal
 * LeoObrst
 * TrishWhetzel
 * ScottHills
 * DouglasRandall

Abstract
Big Systems: The ontology of System Components, and System Modelling Language Requirements

This is our 7th Ontology Summit, a joint initiative by NIST, Ontolog, NCOR, NCBO, IAOA & NCO_NITRD with the support of our co-sponsors. The theme adopted for this Ontology Summit is: "Ontology for Big Systems." The event today is our 11th virtual session.

The principal goal of the summit is to bring together and foster collaboration between the ontology community, systems community, and stakeholders of some of "big systems." Together, the summit participants will exchange ideas on how ontological analysis and ontology engineering might make a difference, when applied in these "big systems." We will aim towards producing a series of recommendations describing how ontologies can create an impact; as well as providing illustrations where these techniques have been, or could be, applied in domains such as bioinformatics, electronic health records, intelligence, the smart electrical grid, manufacturing and supply chains, earth and environmental, e-science, cyberphysical systems and e-government. As is traditional with the Ontology Summit series, the results will be captured in the form of a communiqué, with expanded supporting material provided on the web.

This "Ontology for Big Systems & Systems Engineering" Track aims to bring key challenges to light with large-scale systems and systems of systems for ontology and identify where solutions exist, where the problems require significant research, and where we can work towards solutions as part of this summit. The areas to be considered include:


 * working with and integrating the results of models using multiple modeling languages,
 * the systems lifecycle and the issues of sharing data within and between lifecycle stages,
 * the difference between requirements and the delivered system,
 * systems of systems vs systems,
 * the nature of system components and the difference between these and the parts installed,
 * the connections between system components and what they carry,
 * the specific role of social, legal, and value-related aspects in systems architecture, modeling and design
 * systems behaviour,
 * federated systems both as a big system, and as a solution to some of the challenges,
 * principles of how to construct good quality reusable models (ontologies),
 * the management of ontologies of and for large systems and the challenges in developing and maintaining them.

Rather than trying to continue the exploration of issues and develop new territories, we shall make a synthesis on what has transpired in the discourse around the issues covered by tracks 1 & 2. In this session, we will focus on two topical areas in particular:


 * 1. have a discussion on system components ... and,
 * 2. have a discussion on the requirements for engineering modelling languages, and the shortcomings of what is available.

More details about this Summit at: OntologySummit2012 (home page for the summit)

Agenda
Ontology Summit 2012 - Panel Session-11


 * Session Format: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call


 * 1. Opening (chair) - MatthewWest [10 min.] ... [ slides ]
 * 2. Panel briefings - NicolaGuarino, ChrisPartridge, DavidLeal (presented by MatthewWest), HensonGraves - [20 min. each]
 * 3. Q & A and open discussion [All: ~30 min.] - chair  -- please refer to process above
 * 4. Wrap-up / Announcements - (chair)

Proceedings:
Please refer to the above

IM Chat Transcript captured during the session:

see raw transcript here.

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.) Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.

-- begin in-session chat-transcript --

PeterYim: Welcome to the

= OntologySummit2012: Session-11 - Thu 2012-03-22 =

Summit Theme: OntologySummit2012: "Ontology for Big Systems"

Track (1&2) Title: Ontology for Big Systems & Systems Engineering

Track Co-champions: Dr. MatthewWest and Dr. HensonGraves

Session Topic: Big Systems: The ontology of System Components, and System Modelling Language Requirements

Session Chair: Dr. Matthew West

Panel Briefings:


 * Dr. NicolaGuarino (IAOA; ISTC-CNR LOA, Italy) - "Functional roles and their realizations"


 * Mr. ChrisPartridge (BORO Solutions, UK) - " 'System Components' as a litmus test for your ontological architecture "

- "Some thoughts on requirements for languages in engineering"
 * Mr. DavidLeal (CAESAR Systems, UK), presented by Dr. MatthewWest (Information Junction, UK)


 * Dr. HensonGraves (Algos Associates, US) - "Using Ontology to Meet Big Systems Challenges"

Session page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2012_03_22

Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute

Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"

Proceedings:
anonymous morphed into MatthewKHettinger

anonymous morphed into RexBrooks

HensonGraves: @johnbilmanis - do you remember me

anonymous1 morphed into TomTinsley

anonymous morphed into ChristopherSpottiswoode

anonymous morphed into ChrisPartridge

anonymous morphed into AnatolyLevenchuk

anonymous1 morphed into ElizabethFlorescu

anonymous morphed into Henry (IBM)

PeterYim: ERRATA: (first line above) session should be: = OntologySummit2012: Session-11 - Thu 2012-03-22 =

PeterYim: == MatthewWest introducing the session ...

PeterYim: == NicolaGuarino presenting ...

anonymous morphed into DougFoxvog

PeterYim: @Henry (IBM) - would you click on "settings" and morph into your real name, please? Thanks.

Henry (IBM) morphed into HenryBroodney

PeterYim: @HenryBroodney - many thanks, ... Welcome

HenryBroodney: @PeterYim Thank you

SimonSpero: @Nicola: I have problems with these examples (and some from the paper)

SimonSpero: @Nicola: Some are at most one '?' in my idiolect

SimonSpero: @Nicola: After the Jello incident, Sandy was replaced as Kim's BFF

GaryBergCross: Slide 7?

SimonSpero: @Nicola: (From paper) << I have a good neighbour">> . Not just acceptable, but idiomatic.

DougFoxvog: For X being a role, "s/he is a good X" means that s/he performs expected types of actions someone playing that role "should" do relative to the subject. friend(A,B) obligates B in relation to A, while classmate(A,B) obligates B relative to A far less. That is why "B is a good classmate of A" is marked '*'.

AmandaVizedom: Simon: What paper are you referring to? I don't see a reference in the slides; did I miss it?

SteveRay: Hmm, it seems to me that you can replace both a classmate and a teacher...

JackRing: Seems to me these are examples of the general case of stating a coordinate system then the location of the item in the system.

JackRing: e.g. is right headlamp the 'not left' or the

JackRing: "correct" headlamp?

MatthewWest: not left

DougFoxvog: @Steve: A teacher can replace your classmate, but i fail to see how you can do so in a standard class situation.

JeffreyWallk: I tend to think about a role as a set of functional activities framed by a position in an organization and the context with which the role is operating rather than a defined set of "rules". Perhaps a discussion for later..

SimonSpero: AmandaVizedom: A link was sent to a draft on dropbox

JackRing: @ Matthew. In this example "not left" is pretty obvious but my point illustrates the uncertainty of any specific term.

SimonSpero: @Amanda: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7903842/Guarino-FunctionalPartsFunctionalRoles.pdf

NicolaGuarino: A revised version (BUT STILL UNPUBLISHED!) or my paper is here http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7903842/Guarino-FunctionalPartsFunctionalRolesV2.pdf

SimonSpero: @Nicola: Thanks

PeterYim: == ChrisPartridge presenting ...

DougFoxvog: Are not the object part and the object in the same place at the same time?

SimonSpero: Is the Clay the statue?

NicolaGuarino: @Chris: When I meet the President, the legal person and the physical person are in front of me at the same time in the same location

anonymous morphed into PavithraKenjige

JackRing: Replacement is ambiguous. Replacement may indicate similarity to tyre removed whereas perhaps the original was summer and the second one a winter tyre.

anonymous morphed into FOUGHALI

TerryLongstreth: Slide 9 is a great graphic

SimonSpero: Deflationary approaches to tyres can be problematic

JackRing: Is Rosen / Kineman relational algebra not useful here?

NicolaGuarino: @Jack: replacement is always relative to a function (or an expected behaviour). As long as a generic behavior for the car is expected, you can replace a winter tyre with a summer tyre. The role "car tyre" allows such replacement, but of course the role "winter tyre" doesn't

SimonSpero: Unicorns are Pegasi

DougFoxvog: What's wrong with multiple kinds of parthood? Parthood at one time does not imply parthood of a 4D worm, or vice-versa.

MatthewKHettinger: @Jeffrey IMO a role is a collection of *expected* functional activities ..... e.g. see DougFoxvog. Rules may be considered to be part of the context by which expectations may be defined. The network of roles may form the the basis for an architecture of a system of interest e.g. enterprise, federation. As you say, perhaps a discussion for later.

JeffreyWallk: @MatthewKHettinger: Agreed...look forward to it

DougFoxvog: @Simon: It depends on the context. In the context of various conceptual works, it is false that Unicorns are Pegasi. (assuming the existence of Pegasi) -- i thought that "Pegasus" was the name of an individual, not the name of a class.

anonymous morphed into RafaelPena

GaryBergCross: It certainly seems that the conceptualization that Nicola spoke about earlier is very relevant to how parts are discussed as part of an abstract pattern that is a car.

DavidFlater: Intentionally speaking, having wings is a necessary condition for being a Pegasus (or the Pegasus). Unicorns don't qualify. However, two classes with empty extents are equivalent in the extensional sense.

DougFoxvog: What about the automobile of Theseus? At what point as parts are replaced do we still have the same automobile? Can an automobile have its chassis replaced?

PeterYim: == MatthewWest, presenting DavidLeal's material ...

JackRing: @Nicola - Re: DavidLeal's Slide 16 it seems that the designer must be aware of the degree of specificity that may be presumed by the observer.

SteveRay: Actually, isn't it Matthew West playing the role of David Leal?

GaryBergCross: Isn't Matthew REPLACING David ? It's not a change....except his voice is different...

DougFoxvog: @David, Simon: it depends on "X are Y" means. Is it merely, "Every instance of X is an instance of Y"? The truth of such a statement is context dependent. If it means "Any instance of X is necessarily an instance of Y", then David is correct.

anonymous morphed into PercySalas

NicolaGuarino: @Matthew (and David): in slide 4, the three cases at the bottom (excluding part types) can be represented using Dolce's qualities without the need of classes of classes

SimonSpero: DougFoxvog: Right - the inten_s_ional stance if you will

NicolaGuarino: @Matthew: I would model ownership as a (static) event which has its starting and ending time, and so on... This gives us much more flexibility t

JeffreyWallk: Do we need to think about an object (part if you will) having a location ? Or, can we think about it's relationship to other things ... location is typically relegated to positioning within 2 or 3 dimensional perspectives. So, what if i step back and consider an idea (rather than a part) ....where would I "position" this in a business model (or more tactically within a product design) ?

DougFoxvog: @Jeffrey: We can define spatial and aspatial objects as well as temporal and atemporal objects. An agreement/account/song would be aspatial and temporal. A Platonic solid would be spatial and atemporal.

SimonSpero: @Doug: But in 4-D, aspatial things becomes complicated. What is the difference between a point (at time t) whose location is not known, and a fictional character (in the real world) at time t - for example, Sherlock Holmes, who came in to existence (given intenten_t_ional stance) when conceived of by Sir Arthur

SimonSpero: @Doug: Cyc approach is better

NicolaGuarino: ...this implies introducing thematic roles: Fred is the *experiencer* of an ownership event, whose *theme* is Fido

PeterYim: == HensonGraves presenting ...

NicolaGuarino: @Matthew: I strongly agree on the importance to have variable in a representation formalism. This is in my opinion one of the biggest problem of current description logics.

MatthewWest: @Nicola: Yes, I noticed that too. David was just a bit sloppy there.

MatthewWest: @Nicola: Yes I agree again that variables are important for serious work.

DougFoxvog: @Simon: Cyc uses the concept of a "FictionalContext". From its comment, "In general, a FictionalContext is assumed to include many assertions that are widely believed to be false or questionable. Such assertions might or might not be about actually-existing things. For example, the fictional context associated with the Sherlock Holmes stories contains assertions about London as well as assertions about Holmes. "

DougFoxvog: Cyc also has "FictionalWorksMt to provide facts about fictional works. It's comment states ""This microtheory contains true facts about all fictional Mts, e.g. Dracula-TheNovel, TheSimpsonsMt. This Mt includes information about the type of fictional work, the characters (see characterInCW), and other information. authorOfLiteraryWork-CW assertions should be made in LiteraryPeopleDataMt. Information presented in a fictional work should be asserted in the PIT associated with that work (see ContextOfPCWFn) or in #$FactsInFictionalWorksMt."

DougFoxvog: Statements about characters as characters are true in a different context than statements about the characters in the context in which they are real -- the context of the works in which they are presented.

SimonSpero: @Doug: Right - but the creation of the character "Sherlock Holmes" is a fact in consensual reality, and real thoughts can be "about" that character

DavidFlater: Real thoughts?

DougFoxvog: @Simon: What is the problem with expressing statements about "Sherlock Holmes" in a "real-world" context? In a 1999 context,

DougFoxvog: various things can be said about the character. More statements are true now, since movies using the character have been produced.

SimonSpero: Doug: It's a 4D problem

DougFoxvog: @Simon: I'm not sure that lack of knowledge of the future should be considered a PROBLEM .

JackRing: Re: Henson slide 3: The main root cause is that the model did not project system behavior, e.g., what the system is supposed to do, not just what it is.

JeffreyWallk: This presentation is thoroughly resonating ...thank you. Henson, are you available for an offline discussion ??

HensonGraves: @jeffrey yes

JeffreyWallk: Henson please feel free to reach me at jeffrey.wallk [at] ul.com

PeterYim: == back to MatthewWest ... open Q&A

JackRing: No examples for enthusiasm, tenacity, etc. for modeling human activity systems. Warfield warned years ago that as the problematic situation becomes large enough then the designers become THE problem. We cannot deal with Big Systems without coping with the Human Activity System modeling practices.

MatthewKHettinger: @Jack ++1

JackRing: Pls see http://www.starkermann.com

RexBrooks: There was a group in OASIS several years ago that made an attempt to model human-specific information in a Humanmarkup Language, but it didn't get enough participation to carry it beyond some very basic modeling of physical characteristics and a bare beginning for psychological or sociological characteristics.

RexBrooks: So those problems that Jack noted remain unmodeled.

MatthewKHettinger: @Rex those problems are not as yet completely modeled, especially in a coherent fashion.

RexBrooks: In DoDAF and MoDAF there is another set of characteristics being modeled as "Human Views" for analyzing or putting values to various characteristics relating to competencies and capabilities.

RexBrooks: @MatthewKHettinger - Yes, it still remains.

DougFoxvog: (genls Enthusiasm Excitement) (genls (MediumToVeryHighAmountFn Enthusiasm)(PositiveAmountFn Excitement)) Cyc has done some modeling for Enthusiasm, etc. OpenCyc has no rules, so i'm not sure how well this is ontologized. I would not be surprised if there are not many statements about such terms -- probably because no one has funded such work.

RexBrooks: The DoDAF folks are aimed at "Performance" abilities.

DougFoxvog: Cyc's list of emotions are: Abhorrence Admiration Adulation Affection Ambivalence Amusement-Feeling Anger Anguish Anticipation-Feeling Approval Awe Belligerence Boredom Calmness Celebratory-Emotion Charm Cheerfulness Companionship-Feeling Concern Confidence Confusion-Generic Contempt Contentment Courageousness-Feeling Curiosity Cuteness-EmotionalResponse Defeatedness-Feeling Delight Depression-Feeling Desire Despair Diffidence Disappointment Disapproval Disgust Dislike Displeasure Disrespect Dissatisfaction Distress Doubt Dread Eagerness Elation Embarrassment EmotionalColdness Empathy Enjoyment Entertained-Emotion Enthusiasm Envy Excitement Fear FeelingOfCompetence Flippancy Freedom-Emotion Friendliness Frustration Gloominess GoodWill Gratitude Grief Guilt Happiness Hate Hope Hostility Humility Impatience Indecision Indifference Ingratitude Initiative Innocence Insecurity Inspiration-Emotion Interest-Feeling Irony Irritation Jealousy Like Listlessness Loneliness Love Love-Romantic Loyalty Lust Machismo-Pride Misery Mistrust Modesty Nationalism Nervousness Nostalgia Offendedness-Feeling Panic Passion Patience Patriotism Pensiveness Piety Pity Pleasure-Feeling Pride PrideOfAccomplishment PrideOfMembership Rage Rebelliousness-Feeling Regret Relaxation Relief-Feeling Remorse Reproach Resentment Reservation-Feeling Resolution-Emotion Respect Restlessness Reverence Sadness Satisfaction Security-Emotion SelfConfidence SexualArousal SexualGratification Shame Shock Solemnity Solitude SpiritualElitism Stress-Feeling Surprise Suspense Sympathy Touched-Feeling TrappedFeeling Triumph Uncertainty Uneasiness Unhappiness Vanity Willingness Wonder-Admiration

RexBrooks: In OASIS we stayed with the emotions that the human facial muscles can, often unconsciously, express and then gave them a range of values to indicate how strongly the emotion was expressed or could be expressed. Even that quickly eclipsed the ability to compute combinations of those basic emotions.

JackRing: The state of the design is not known to managers because no one included a task for "knowing system design viability" c.f., Steve Krane, INCOSE, who does it every day.

PeterYim: (to capture a verbal exchange ... ref. audio recording) - is modal logic a prerequisite when we need to include people into our systems model?

MatthewWest: @Peter: yes

PeterYim: -- session ended: 11:23am PDT --

-- end of in-session chat-transcript --


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 * Conference Date and Time:	22-Mar-2012 9:36am~11:23am PDT
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Additional Resources:

 * Homepage of OntologySummit2012
 * OntologySummit2012 Launch Event - ConferenceCall_2012_01_12
 * OntologySummit2012 session-02 "Ontology for Big Systems: What's In Scope" - ConferenceCall_2012_01_19
 * OntologySummit2012 session-03 "Ontology for Big Systems & Systems Engineering - I : The Systems and Systems Engineering Problem Space" - ConferenceCall_2012_01_26
 * OntologySummit2012 session-04 - "Ontology for Big Systems & Systems Engineering - II : a response to the problem space and setting out the working program for this Summit Track" - ConferenceCall_2012_02_02
 * OntologySummit2012 session-05 - "Meeting Big Data Challenges through Ontology - I" - ConferenceCall_2012_02_09
 * OntologySummit2012 session-06 - "Large-Scale Domain Applications  I" - ConferenceCall_2012_02_16
 * OntologySummit2012 session-07 - "Implementing Ontology Quality Measures in Big Systems Engineering" - ConferenceCall_2012_02_23
 * OntologySummit2012 session-08 - "Ontology for Federation and Integration of Systems" - ConferenceCall_2012_03_01
 * OntologySummit2012 session-09 - "Large-Scale Domain Applications  II" - ConferenceCall_2012_03_08
 * OntologySummit2012 session-10 - "Big Data Developing Challenges" - ConferenceCall_2012_03_15
 * Wiki pages devoted to Track-1&2: Ontology for Big Systems and Systems Engineering
 * OntologySummit2012_BigSystemsEngineering_CommunityInput (open)
 * OntologySummit2012_BigSystemsEngineering_Synthesis (maintained by MatthewWest, HensonGraves)
 * [ontology-summit] mailing list archives - http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/
 * to subscribe to this discussion list: send a blank message from your subscribing email address to  or visit http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-summit/ and subscribe yourself there
 * Homepage of the Summit series - see: OntologySummit

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