OOR/ConferenceCall 2012 08 14

= OpenOntologyRepository: "OOR for Big Data" Workshop-I - Tue 2012_08_14 =

Topic: "OOR for Big Data" - Brainstorm Session

Session Chair: MikeDean (OOR; Raytheon-BBN)

Archives:


 * Abstract
 * Agenda
 *  Prepared slides
 * Audio recording of the session ... [ 1:27:43 ; mp3 ; 10.04 MB ]
 * Transcript of the online chat during the session
 * Additional Resources

Conference Call Details:

 * Date: Tuesday, 14-Aug-2012
 * Start Time: 8:30am PDT / 11:30am EDT / 5:30pm CEST / 15:30 UTC
 * ref: World Clock
 * Expected Call Duration: ~1.5 hours


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Attendees

 * Attended:
 * MikeDean (chair)
 * PeterYim
 * KenBaclawski
 * TerryLongstreth
 * MikeBennett
 * KenBaclawski
 * MichaelGruninger
 * ToddSchneider
 * ElizabethFlorescu


 * Expecting:
 * ... if you are coming to the meeting, please add your name above (plus your affiliation, if you aren't already a member of the community) above, or e-mail  so that we can reserve enough resources to support everyone's participation. ...
 * ... if you are coming to the meeting, please add your name above (plus your affiliation, if you aren't already a member of the community) above, or e-mail  so that we can reserve enough resources to support everyone's participation. ...


 * Regrets:

Agenda Ideas:
please insert any additional items below (along with your name for follow-up purposes)


 * we need a few minutes before going into the subject discussion to tie down a few event dates

Abstract
Topic: "OOR for Big Data" - Brainstorm Session

This is a following up session from the presentation our team made on the case of "Leveraging OOR in Big Open Data" at the virtual panel session on ConferenceCall_2012_05_17.

We will use this workshop to strategize and brainstorm on how we should approach this very important initiative going forward.

The plan for this session is to use the time of this session as fairly open discussion about use of OOR for Big Data. There will not be formal presentations (we are still a bit early for that). The chair will try to seed some discussion topics.

Agenda
Topic: "OOR for Big Data" - Brainstorm Session


 * Session Format: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call


 * 1. Opening - chair ... [ slides ]
 * 1.1 participants self-introduction (if the number of participants is less than 20) [max 0.5 min. each]
 * 2. Framing the issues - chair
 * 3. Q & A and open discussion [ All ] -- please refer to process above
 * 4. Any other business (possibly move this up, and get it done with first)
 * Tying down event dates for ref.
 * OOR Architecture & API Workshop-XIII - Co-chairs: KenBaclawski & ToddSchneider
 * OOR Metadata Workshop-VIII - Chair: MichaelGruninger
 * OOR Funding-I - Chair: KenBaclawski - "rethink strategy" - 2012_08_21 or 28
 * OOR Code Development-IX - Chair: MikeDean - Tue 2012_09_16
 * OOR Infrastructure-II - Chair: PeterYim - ??
 * 5. Summary / Next steps / Announcements - (chair)

Proceedings:
Please refer to the above

IM Chat Transcript captured during the session:

see raw transcript here.

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.) Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.

-- begin in-session chat-transcript --

[08:22] PeterYim: Welcome to the

= "OOR for Big Data" Workshop-I - Tue 2012_08_14 =

Topic: "OOR for Big Data" Brainstorm Session

Session Chair: Mike Dean (OOR; Raytheon-BBN)

Session page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OOR/ConferenceCall_2012_08_14

Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute

Can't find Skype Dial pad? (as a Dial pad seems to be missing on Linux-based Skype v4.x for skype-calls.)
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Proceedings:
[08:37] PeterYim: == MikeDean starting the session off with his intro slides ...

[08:41] ToddSchneider: [ref. Mike's slides #4 & 5] How do these supporting technologies fit into overall IT/data architectures?

[08:47] PeterYim: == Q&A and Open Discussion ...

[08:48] anonymous morphed into ElizabethFlorescu

[08:49] TerryLongstreth: Mike mentioned RDF from SQL productions; Terry asked if that included capturing the logic from constraints, triggers (Mike added views).

[08:51] MikeBennett: How do you manage the relationship between the logical data model which corresponds to the (e.g. SQL) data source, and the ontology of the domain. How do we distinguish an ontology which is an RDF model of a data model design, versus an ontology of the real things?

[08:53] MikeBennett: That is, how to formalize the model theoretic relationship between the elements in the RDF model, and the things which they represent (data elements v things).

[08:54] PeterYim: our opportunity (and challenge, of course) could be in: taking where the Linked Data people leave off (say, having extracted a vocabulary on the dataset) and come up with the ontology and the value added services that OOR is poised to provide ... of course, we should look at starting from the dataset as well (not just from the vocabulary)

[08:58] MikeBennett: Suggestion: in extracting information from large datasets, is there a role for an "Ontology of the data" and a clear way of distinguishing this from the ontology of the subject matter itself?

[09:01] MichaelGruninger: @MikeBennett: Do you see a role for an "ontology of the data"? What kinds of concepts and relations do you see in such an ontology? Would it be domain-independent?

[09:04] MikeBennett: This is what I'm wondering. It's all too easy for someone to take a logical model (which has been designed, rightly), converting it into RDF/OWL and saying "Lo, an ontology". I think there must be a role for it in data extraction, but also a clear difference to ontologies of the subject matter. With perhaps an RDF/OWL mapping ontology between the two?

[09:06] MikeBennett: @Michael PS I suspect that the basic concepts such a model would be built from, i.e. the top level classes, might be the constructs that exist in the data modeling language, e.g. data table, join table, UML class, UML attribute and so on? I don't know, I'm still ruminating on this.

[09:03] PeterYim: candidate data that we might get our hands on and communities we can collaborate with are probably in the domains of: (i) government data; (ii) geospatial / geo-science; (iii) biomedical (iv) standards

[09:05] PeterYim: a mini-series is coming up shortly - see: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?EarthScienceOntolog ... the kick-off session for the series is coming up next week (Thu 2012.08.23)

[09:06] TerryLongstreth: Big data characterized by Size, by Complexity, by SxC?

[09:08] TerryLongstreth: A characteristic of big systems is the fuzziness of the boundaries; does the same hold for big data?

[09:10] ToddSchneider: Ken, when the phrase 'big data' is used I haven't seen qualification to the number of sources. Perhaps there's an implicit assumption of a single source.

[09:11] KenBaclawski: When we talk about Big Data and OOR, there are two different problems: a relatively small number of large complex ontologies (as in BioPortal which has ontologies with millions of concepts) or a very large number (on the order of millions) of relatively simple ontologies (e.g., the fields of a CSV file).

[09:19] ToddSchneider: Ken, Okay there may be performance issues when the number of ontologies becomes large.

[09:18] TerryLongstreth: Challenge for OOR would seem to be more towards complexity rather than size of a Big Data environment

[09:20] MikeBennett: Open linked data marketing issue: so all these governments that are putting out RDF linked data on the basis of the benefits of semantics: are they aware of the available ontologies (per OOR) so that they start to use existing ontologies as the conceptual model from which to structure new and future open linked data outputs.

[09:20] MikeBennett: This also requires an awareness of the role of an ontology AS a conceptual model - many folks are simply not aware of basic top down modeling best practice.

[09:22] MichaelGruninger: Two different kinds of applications of OOR: 1) using ontologies within OOR together with existing data sets e.g. integration, decision support. 2) using ontologies within OOR to design new data sets or redesign existing data sets

[09:27] MikeDean: As part of "moving to the cloud", many organizations are moving from relational databases to map/reduce frameworks such as Hadoop. Can ontologies be used to assist with or guide such migration?

[09:30] ToddSchneider: Have to go. Cheers.

[09:37] KenBaclawski: Big Data also involves format conversion issues as well as semantics (e.g., integer vs floating point, image formats).

[09:39] MikeBennett: OOR: would not include metadata about data formats (how could it?) but there is a role for some demonstration of description of how to use this stuff, as part of the usage of OOR in that scenario.

[09:39] KenBaclawski: Clarify these terms: data registry, data repository, ontology registry, ontology repository.

[09:40] MikeBennett: Also clarify how these different moving parts may be framed in terms of the Zachman Framework or some similar formal development framework.

[09:40] TerryLongstreth: The loss of meaning in data conversions should be part of the ontology

[09:41] TerryLongstreth: ...perhaps a separate micro-theory about data formats and lossy vs. lossless conversions

[09:44] MikeBennett: Incompatible data sources: what ontologies are for.

[09:47] MikeDean: http://icpsr.umich.edu is a large repository of social science data

[09:47] KenBaclawski: I suggest as an action item: capture the use cases we just identified.

[09:48] MikeDean: Most domains/projects seem to have their own data registries

[09:58] TerryLongstreth: Are we agreed that Big Data for OOR is primarily an issue of complexity of the target relationships?

[10:00] TerryLongstreth: Apparently no consensus yet

[10:01] MikeBennett: Or is it "Data that is Big" v "Big data architecture" i.e. Hadoop / Mapreduce. Both seemed relevant according to today's conversation.

[10:04] PeterYim: as long as we are not arguing about what "Big Data" is ... and we know our objective is to tackle how OOR can "serve" Big Data, I think we are fine (at least for now; until we need to tackle at finer granularity)

[10:12] PeterYim: assuming we have consensus on putting a focus on "OOR for Big Data" (along with what we have been doing so far with OOR), we might want to: (a) identify the data, use case(s) and one or two community(ies) we want to work closely with, to take this effort to the next level, (b) figure out what we need to be doing differently (from this point onwards) for OOR

[10:21] PeterYim: Following event dates confirmed

(ref. http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OOR/ConferenceCall_2012_08_07#nid3DJ5 ... and other events already scheduled) (... incorporating consensus arrived with email exchanges after the session as well) the next major release of the BioPortal vm appliance)
 * OOR Funding-I - Chair: KenBaclawski - "rethink strategy" - Tue 2012_08_21
 * No meeting on Tue 2012_08_28
 * OOR regular monthly team meeting - Tue 2012.09.04
 * OOR Architecture & API Workshop-XIII - Co-chairs: KenBaclawski & ToddSchneider - "use cases" - Tue 2012_09_11
 * OOR Content Workshop-IV - Co-chairs: MichaelGruninger and MikeDean - "Capturing FOIS Ontology Content" - Tue 2012_09_18
 * No meeting on Tue 2012_09_25
 * No meeting on Tue 2012_10_02
 * OOR regular monthly team meeting - Tue 2012.10.09
 * OOR Metadata Workshop-VIII - Chair: MichaelGruninger - will do "Mapping" and/or "metadata in OOR for Big Data" - Tue 2012_10_16
 * OOR Code Development-IX - Chair: MikeDean - Tue 2012_10_23
 * OOR Infrastructure-II - Chair: PeterYim - tba (will schedule this later; possibly after

[10:04] PeterYim: great session!

[10:05] PeterYim: -- session ended: 10:03am PDT --

-- end of in-session chat-transcript --


 * Further Question & Remarks - please post them to the [ oor-forum ] listserv
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 * Next Meetings:
 * Tying down event dates for ref.
 * OOR Architecture & API Workshop-XIII - Co-chairs: KenBaclawski & ToddSchneider - "use cases" - Tue 2012_09_11
 * OOR Metadata Workshop-VIII - Chair: MichaelGruninger - will do "Mapping" and/or "metadata in OOR for Big Data" - Tue 2012_09_25
 * OOR Funding-I - Chair: KenBaclawski - "rethink strategy" - Tue 2012_08_21 (MikeBennett voiced his preference for 8/21; most people are ok with either dates.)
 * OOR Code Development-IX - Chair: MikeDean - Tue 2012_09_16
 * OOR Infrastructure-II - Chair: PeterYim - tba
 * No meeting on Tue 2012_08_28

Additional Resources:

 * The OpenOntologyRepository Initiative - http://www.oor.net
 * Index page to the various OOR instances - http://oor.net


 * Our "Leveraging OOR in Big Open Data" presentation at the virtual panel session on ConferenceCall_2012_05_17


 * OntologySummit2012 - "Ontology for Big Systems"
 * OntologySummit2012_Communique
 * 2012_02_09 - Thursday: OntologySummit2012 session-05 - Track-3: "Meeting Big Data Challenges through Ontology - I & II" - Co-chairs: ErnieLucier & MaryBrady - Panelists: BarrySmith, ChrisMusialek-JeanneHolm, BryanThompson-MikePersonick, JamesKirby - ConferenceCall_2012_02_09
 * 2012_02_16 - Thursday: OntologySummit2012 session-06 - Track-4: "Large-Scale Domain Applications - I: Energy, Government and Geography" - Co-chairs: SteveRay & TrishWhetzel - Panelists: - AndrewCrapo, KrzysztofJanowicz, BruceBauman, MillsDavis - ConferenceCall_2012_02_16
 * 2012_03_08 - Thursday: OntologySummit2012 session-09 - Track-4: "Large-Scale Domain Applications - II: Biomedical, earth & environmental science & engineering" - Co-chairs: TrishWhetzel & SteveRay - Panelists: DavidPrice, MikeKellen, DamianGessler, BlazejBulka, IlyaZaslavsky, LinePouchard - ConferenceCall_2012_03_08
 * 2012_03_15 - Thursday: OntologySummit2012 session-10 - Track-3: "Challenge: Ontology and Big Data - III" - Co-chairs: MaryBrady & ErnieLucier - Panelists: TimFinin, KyoungsookKim, MikeFolk, MarioPaolucci, UrsulaKattner, EdinMuharemagic - ConferenceCall_2012_03_15


 * OntologySummit2011 - "Making the Case for Ontology"
 * OntologySummit2011_Communique


 * OntologySummit2009 - "Toward Ontology-based Standards"
 * OntologySummit2009_Communique


 * OntologySummit2008 - "Toward An Open Ontology Repository"
 * OntologySummit2008_Communique


 * OASIS Open Data Protocol (OData) TC - https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=odata

For the record ...

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