ConferenceCall 2010 02 04

= OntologySummit2010: Panel Session-3 - "Training Requirements for Ontologists" - Thu 4-Feb-2010 =

OntologySummit2010 Theme: "Creating the Ontologists of the Future"

 * Panel Session-3 Topic: "What Are We Training For?"


 * Chair: Dr. AmandaVizedom (Wind River Consulting) - [ opening slides ]


 * Panelists:
 * Professor DeniseBedford (Kent State University) - "Requirements for Ontologists: Current and Future" - [ slides ]
 * Dr. MichaelUschold (Consultant) - "Ontology Engineer Requirements: Focus on what ontologists need to DO and KNOW" - [ slides ]
 * Mr. MikeBennett (Hypercube, UK) - "Sharing our experience in the EDM Council Semantics Repository work" - slides
 * Dr. JohnSowa ( VivoMind Intelligence) - "Training for Ontologists: Translating Language to Logic" - [ slides ]


 * Archive:
 * Abstract
 * Agenda & Proceedings
 * Our panel's prepared presentation material can be accessed by clicking on each of the title links below:
 * [ 0-Chair ] . [ 1-Bedford ] . [ 2-Uschold ] . [ 3-Bennett ] . [ 4-Sowa ]
 * [ Audio Recording of the session ]
 * [ Transcript of the online chat session ] during the panel discussion
 * Other Resources

Conference Call Details

 * Date: Thursday, 4-February-2010 
 * Start Time: 10:30am PDT / 1:30pm EDT / 7:30pm CET / 6:30pm GMT / 18:30 UTC
 * see world clock for other time zones
 * Expected Call Duration: 1.5~2.0 hours
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 * RSVP to [mailto:peter.yim@cim3.com peter.yim@cim3.com] appreciated.


 * This session, like all other Ontolog events, is open to the public. Information relating to this session is shared on this wiki page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2010_02_04


 * Please note that this session will be recorded, and the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content to our community membership and the public at-large under our prevailing open IPR policy.


 * To participate in OntologySummit2010 virtual discourse, please refer to details here.

Attendees:

 * Attended:
 * AmandaVizedom (Chair)
 * PeterYim
 * DeniseBedford
 * JeffreySchiffel
 * SteveRay
 * NicolaGuarino
 * JulitaBermejoAlonso
 * ElizabethFlorescu
 * ArturoSanchez
 * RalphHodgson
 * JohnSowa
 * MikeBennett
 * AliHashemi
 * FabianNeuhaus
 * RaviSharma
 * RayMcCormick
 * BarrySmith
 * MarciaZeng
 * MichaelUschold
 * ArturoSanchez
 * GaryBergcross
 * PavithraKenjige
 * RexBrooks
 * EdDodds
 * JimDisbrow


 * Expecting:
 * LisaZilinski
 * OnnaleeGomez
 * William Sweet, Jr. (MITRE)
 * JerrySmith
 * ... if you are coming to the session, please add your name above (plus your affiliation, if you aren't already a member of the community) above; or e-mail  so that we can reserve enough resources to support everyone's participation. ...
 * ... if you are coming to the session, please add your name above (plus your affiliation, if you aren't already a member of the community) above; or e-mail  so that we can reserve enough resources to support everyone's participation. ...


 * Regrets:
 * JackPark
 * LeoObrst
 * BartGajderowicz
 * DougHolmes
 * AhsanMorshed
 * JoanneLuciano

Resources

 * OntologySummit2010: Requirements Track: input & syntheses
 * OntologySummit2010_PresentRequirements_CommunityInput (open)
 * OntologySummit2010_PresentRequirements_Synthesis (maintained by Track AmandaVizedom)
 * OntologySummit2010_FutureDevelopments_CommunityInput (open)
 * OntologySummit2010_FutureDevelopments_Synthesis (maintained by Track ElizabethFlorescu and PeterYim)
 * OntologySummit2010_Survey


 * Homepage of OntologySummit2010
 * OntologySummit2010 - Event Calendar
 * OntologySummit2010 Panel Session-2 "Training Content for Future Ontologists" - ConferenceCall_2010_01_14
 * OntologySummit2010 Panel Session-1 "Surveying the Landscape & Possibilities" - ConferenceCall_2009_12_17
 * OntologySummit2010 Launch Event - ConferenceCall_2009_12_10
 * Communitywide brainstorming and planning session Ontology Summit 2010 - ConferenceCall_2009_11_05
 * OntologySummit2010: Key Content Pages
 * OntologySummit2010_PertinentQuestions
 * OntologySummit2010_Survey
 * [ontology-summit] discussion list archives - http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/
 * to subscribe to this discussion list: send a blank message from your subscribing email address to  or visit http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-summit/ and subscribe yourself there
 * Homepage of OntologySummit2009 - http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2009
 * OntologySummit2009_Communique
 * Homepage of OntologySummit2008 - http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2008
 * OntologySummit2008_Communique
 * Homepage of OntologySummit2007 - http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2007
 * OntologySummit2007_Communique
 * Homepage of UpperOntologySummit (2006) - http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UpperOntologySummit
 * UpperOntologySummit/UosJointCommunique

Theme: OntologySummit2010 - Creating the Ontologists of the Future
This is our 5th Ontology Summit, a joint initiative by NIST, Ontolog, NCOR, NCBO and IAOA with the support of our co-sponsors. The theme adopted for this Ontology Summit is: "Creating the Ontologists of the Future" and was launched on 10-Dec-2009. Like previous years, this Ontology Summit will comprise of three months of virtual discourse, over our archived mailing lists, wiki, and virtual panel sessions (like this one), and will culminate in a 2-day face-to-face workshop/symposium to be held on Mon & Tue, 15 & 16-March-2010 at NIST (Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA.)


 * Session Topic: What Are We Training For?


 * . Abstract: ... by AmandaVizedom


 * Increasingly, major national and international projects centered on ontology technology are being advanced by governments and by scientific and industrial organizations. This brings a growing need for ontology expertise and thus for new methods and institutions for the training of ontologists. The 2010 Ontology Summit will explore strategies to address this need in terms of curriculum, establishment of new career tracks, role of ontology support organizations and funding agencies, as well as training in the analysis and comparison of methodologies for designing, maintaining, implementing, testing and applying ontologies and associated tools and resources.


 * The "Content" and "Quality" tracks of this Summit focus, respectively, on identifying the subject matter that might form the content of ontologist training and on means of delivery that maximize quality in both the training itself and the ontologists it produces. For either of these discussions to be effective, however, we need to have a sense of the target: what is the training supposed to accomplish?


 * We will begin with remarks from our panelists, each of whom embodies one or more end-user (or "consumer") perspectives: those who hire ontologists and need a reliable way to identify qualified candidates; those looking for training that will adequately prepare them for careers as working ontologists; those who hire, manage, or evalute ontologists and have insight into the value of various elements of preparation; those who need supplemental training for themselves or staff to meet changing work needs. We will also look at the forthcoming Requirements survey, though we will not walk through all of it, or ask people to complete it, during this session.  Questions, Answers, and Open Discussion will follow, with the aim of further developing our community understanding of the needs to which ontologist training ought to be addressed.


 * The session plan is to have each panelist speak for 10 minutes, assuming a small number of panelists. Default topic for each is the set of general questions to which the Requirements Track and this Session are addressed:


 * o . What are we training for?
 * o . What do working ontologists need to know?
 * o . What do ontologists need to be able to do?


 * Individual Panelists are free, however, to focus more specifically on particular points they see as worthy of emphasis: lessons learned, experiences, points that stand out as commonly overlooked or over-emphasized, and so on.


 * Goal: The Ontology Summit community is in general agreement that the most valuable and urgently needed training will be informed not only by theoretical considerations but also, and centrally, by the needs of ontologists seeking employment and employers seeking quality, useful ontologists. Our understanding of those needs, however, is scattered and divergent. This Panel session, and the "Requirements" track generally, are aimed at developing a richer and more clear picture of the requirements of employability (those trained are well-prepared for the available jobs) and deployability (those who hire trained ontologists find them ready and able to perform the needed work). The goal is not necessarily to maximize coverage within this session; the surveys, wiki, forum discussion, and other activities all the way up to the March face-to-face will each play a role in such maximization. Rather, the goal is to bring a strong "end-user" voice to the discussion, and to stimulate thinking and discussion across the Summit community as a whole.

Agenda & Proceedings:
OntologySummit2010 - virtual panel-3 - Topic: "What Are We Training For?"


 * Session Format: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call
 * 1. Opening - chair: AmandaVizedom (5 min.)
 * 2. Announcement: Launch of the OntologySummit2010_Survey - chair & survey authors (10 min.)
 * 3. Introduction of the Panel - chair: AmandaVizedom (~2 min.)
 * 4. Panelist Remarks - DeniseBedford, MichaelUschold, MikeBennett, JohnSowa (10 min. each) [ presentation material ]
 * 5. Q & A and open discussion on what the community wants to achieve in this Summit (All ~30 min.) -- please refer to process above
 * 6. Conclusion / Follow-up - chair: AmandaVizedom

Transcript of the online chat during the session:
see raw transcript here.

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.) Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.

-- begin of chat session --

PeterYim:  Welcome to the 

PeterYim: OntologySummit2010: Panel Session-3 - "Training Requirements for Ontologists" - Thu 4-Feb-2010 OntologySummit2010 Theme: "Creating the Ontologists of the Future"


 * Panel Session-3 Topic: "What Are We Training For?"


 * Chair: Dr. AmandaVizedom

o Professor DeniseBedford o Dr. MichaelUschold o Mr. MikeBennett o Dr. JohnSowa
 * Panelists:

PeterYim: details are on the session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2010_02_04

PeterYim:.

anonymous morphed into RayMcCormick

anonymous morphed into JulitaBermejoAlonso

anonymous morphed into NicolaGuarino

NicolaGuarino: hi Ali! how are you?

AliHashemi: Hello Nicola! I am doing well.

MikeBennett: Just tried dialing with a phone and it was worse than Skype. Hope the sound is Ok

AliHashemi: I keep on getting a "That was not a valid conference room"

RaviSharma: Denise: What is specifically meant by "ontological forms rather than developing in context" -examples?

ArturoSanchez: @DeniseBedford: (cf. slide 7) Of course, the development workflows are not linear. Also, it is not clear at what point the ontology is actually consumed (i.e., it now becomes an artifact of another development cycle, for instance, software development). Any comments?

RaviSharma: Denise: Would you agree that example of "business" would be a domain area such as XBRL for financial services domain, I think Mike will address some of it? Further while i see a lot of MDM, BPM, Data and Enity empashis in your definitions and workflow, I would like to know your views on "data-to-information" of value to "business" and beyond data (even MDM) to terms and vocabularies that help information exchange. Further Ontologies have to embrace concepts of "affinity" among entities (Things) by weighing Predicates etc. Also CEP and decision support ...etc.

anonymous morphed into ElizabethFlorescu

GaryBergcross: Denise on slide 8 you have "Enterprise Architecture (business architecture,

GaryBergcross: Is there more in that item since the paren doesn't close?

GaryBergcross: For Whom Do Ontologists Work? Organizational, besides the chief architect they often, organizationally, work for a CIO.

RaviSharma: Thanks Denise, for response to my comments, let us also chat offline on such important topics

RaviSharma: Mike: Great summary on tools and their importance and balanced view from Ontology development perspective including patterns - thanks.

NicolaGuarino: @MikeUschold: ontology design patterns are fine, but if they are too much underspecified they don't really help semantic interoperability, since two people who adopt the same pattern may actually disagree... Unfortunately most of the pattern on the site you mentioned are very underspecified (check roles, collections, situations...)

RaviSharma: Ralph: great comments on patterns, and diverse applications, NASA telemetry, etc.reuse is not clear to me yet?

PeterYim: @RalphHodgson (and ALL): one good way to contribute asynchronously would be to respond to the surveys and join the Real-time Delphi study - the single entry point to those is: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2010_Survey ... thanks in advance

NicolaGuarino: I support VERY MUCH John Sowa's point on the importance of translating simple NL statements in logic. I also agree o the importance of choosing right names for concepts, underlined by Mike. In general, this kind of linguistic/logic competence is an essential requisite for an ontologist. Unfortunately I have to go, bye bye everybody.

AmandaVizedom: @Nicola: I quite agree, and in fact have spent significant time in recent months thinking about how to take this right-on idea of Ontology Design Patterns and apply it in a way we can really use. This has got, I think, to include at least specifying (formalizing) the technical assumptions (DL-only like the current collection, for example), purpose (decision support, classification, information retrieval, for example) and some other aspects of the application context. Something that deserves a Ontolog session or thread of its own, I think!

AmandaVizedom: Noting a point of MikeBennett's for record: importance of differentiating field X from Xical Engineering. Ontologists must know how to take the principles of Ontology and apply them in a situation to solve a problem (paraphrased).

PeterYim: @MikeBennett: still can't quite catch that last sentence, can you type it out here, please?

AmandaVizedom: Final point from MikeBennett: "The art of doing ontology is the art of *not* designing something."

RaviSharma: Mike: Where are we at using XBRL and (ontology oriented) transactions in financial services?

RexBrooks: The notion of "not designing" ontologies, but discovering or capturing the structure or organization of some domain of knowledge or discourse is what, for me personally, is FUN in the sense that MikeUschold was making in his last point.

RexBrooks: It would be helpful to "capture" the minds of bright young people for the field of ontology with this kind of FUN.

SteveRay: For the record, I raised the question of the distinction between "design" and "creating an ontology" that MikeBennett raised.

RaviSharma: Mike: Does Ontology help bridge this apparent "lack of synchronization" between Business Processes as you described and items such as "logical or physical data models"?

anonymous morphed into JimDisbrow

MikeBennett: @Ravi I would certainly hope so - my view (no shared by all?) is that ontology should be situated within a formal place in the development methodology, which is why I see an ontologist as being a kind of engineer as well as someone who understands meaning

MikeBennett: @Ravi XBRL - long story...

Ed Dodds: @MikeBennett - ontoneer - function of the PMO?

MikeBennett: @Ed

Ed Dodds: @RaviSharma Hitachi's "XBRL for Dummies" Primer advocating putting XBRL as far into the data chain as possible -- don't know what traction that has. Did see MIX the other day http://hitachidatainteractive.com/2008/02/01/xbrl-supports-microfinance/

AmandaVizedom: Ways of contributing asynchronously: (1) Respond to the Surveys, via the single-point entry page http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2010_Survey, as Peter noted. This page has information to help you decide which surveys to take, as well as links to each. (2) Share Community Input page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2010_PresentRequirements_CommunityInput
 * your* thoughts on today's focal question, as our panelists have, by posting to this track's

PeterYim: and, of course, post any thoughts to the [ontology-summit] mailing list (with a proper [PREFIX])

PeterYim: to contribute to the discussion - see under: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2010#nid25CT

RaviSharma: John: Of course being mentored by you on Ontolog Forum, I am indebted and todays presentation is a good way to learn how to connect ontology learning and logic?

anonymous morphed into MichaelUschold

MichaelUschold: I wonder how much encoding sentences in English into first order logic is useful to ontologists of the future, not sure how relevant today.

MikeBennett: What John is saying defines the difference between someone who gets the concepts and someone who drives tools

MikeBennett: Add an understanding of linguistics into the mix? (as per this example = se couduire - to drive oneself; v to drive cattle to market - a linguist would get that

MikeBennett: I wonder if creating a reading list between us, would help us identify the sorts of things that an ontologist should know or be familiar with before they can call themselves one of those.

RaviSharma: John: Many thanks for good explanation of english and logic, and I now see importance of studying Aristotle and his influence into parsing english sentence. Now my related question, if we have a reasonably clear (subjective) text as is semi-professional and publishable (no slang etc), then what % of sentences typically would fall into logic types expressed in slide 7 exemplified by 6 entries.?

RaviSharma: Amanda: model theoretic and physical entity and its model's congruence are a big open topic that I would like to understand your perspective on? It is exteremely relevant to ontology oriented learning and results.

PavithraKenjige: Hi, Dr Sowa, your emphasis on theory or logic rather than a particular tool is interesting! Even though I agree with you, industry may not! People do look for experince in a set of tools rather than theory!

SteveRay: It should not be "rather than" but "in addition to".

Ed Dodds: @MikeBennett we could adopt #ontolog as a keyword on both delicious.com and diigo.com for a start on the reading list

MikeBennett: @Pavithra - that's a lot like the traditional difference between an engineer and a technician. Industry needs both, but we'd be lost without the engineers i.e. the people who can think in concepts 1st and tools 2nd

PavithraKenjige: Thank

SteveRay: Excellent session. Thanks Amanda.

FabianNeuhaus: thank you amanda, great job

RaviSharma: Amamnda: Thanks for a great session.

PavithraKenjige: Thank you, it was excellent!

SteveRay: ...and thanks to the panelists.

MikeBennett: @Ed good call

MikeBennett: thanks Amanda and everyone, great session

AmandaVizedom: Thank you Panelists!

PeterYim: Great session ... thanks everyone!

PeterYim:  -- session adjourned 12:38pm PST --

-- end of chat session --


 * ... More Questions
 * For those who have further questions or remarks on the topic, please [mailto:ontology-summit@ontolog.cim3.net post them to the "ontology-summit"] list so that everyone in the community can benefit from the discourse ... see the next section (below) on how you can participate, if you aren't already a member of the community.)


 * Please mark your calendars - next session (same time on a Thursday): Thu 2010.02.04 - OntologySummit2010 virtual panel session-4: "Quality" Track panel session - developing agenda will be at: ConferenceCall_2010_02_11

An Open Invitation
If you do find this initiative interesting or useful, we cordially invite you to join us in the "Ontology Summit 2010" virtual discourse that will be taking place in the next 3 months or so, and to the face-to-face workshop that will be held on 15 & 16-March-2010 as part of the NIST Interoperability Week in Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA.


 * To participate in OntologySummit2010 virtual discourse, please refer to details here


 * Join us at some of the upcoming virtual panel discussion (on the Ontolog Forum) on this year's summit topics. Watch for the announcements!


 * Registration for the face-to-face workshop (Mon & Tue 2009.03.15 & 16) will be announced later. Please be on the look out for it!

Audio Recording of this Session

 * To download the audio recording of the session, click here
 * the playback of the audio files require the proper setup, and an MP3 compatible player on your computer.
 * Conference Date and Time:	4-Feb-2010 10:38am ~ 12:38 pm Pacific Standard Time
 * Duration of Recording:	1 Hour 49 Minutes
 * Recording File Size:	       13.0 MB (in mp3 format)


 * suggestion: its best that you listen to the session while having the presentation opened in front of you. You'll be prompted to advance slides by the speaker.
 * Take a look, also, at the rich body of knowledge that this community has built together, over the years, by going through the archives of noteworthy past Ontolog events. (References on how to subscribe to our podcast can also be found there.)

For the record ...

How To Join (while the session is in progress)

 * 1. Dial in with a phone: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2010_02_04#nid286L
 * 2. Open chat in a new browser window: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/ontolog_20100204
 * 3. Download presentations for each speaker here: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2010_02_04#nid286B
 * or, 3.1 access our shared-screen vnc server, if you are not behind a corporate firewall