ConferenceCall 2009 05 14

= OntologySummit2009: Follow-up and Action Planning Call - Thu 2009-05-14 =


 * Topic: OntologySummit2009 postmortem and follow-up planning conference call


 * Chair: Dr. SteveRay


 * Archive: . [ slides ] . & . [ audio recording of the session ] (mp3) . & . [ Chat Transcript ]

Conference Call Details:

 * Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009 
 * Start Time: 10:30am PDT / 1:30pm EDT / 7:30pm CEST / 6:30pm BST / 17:30 UTC
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Attendees

 * Attended:
 * SteveRay (chair)
 * PeterYim
 * DennisThomas
 * BaharehHeravi
 * LeoObrst
 * DavidLeal
 * MarkCarlisle
 * DavidConnelly
 * MichaelGruninger
 * KatherineGoodier
 * BillMcCarthy
 * LinePouchard
 * FrankChum
 * PavithraKenjige
 * DavidPrice
 * GeraldRadack
 * BrandNiemann
 * KurtConrad
 * Yung S Kim (Boeing)
 * MikeBennett
 * PatHayes
 * DeborahMacPherson
 * David Coggeshall ( MapLab )
 * DuaneNickull
 * HowardMason (from 18.55 BST)
 * LaurentLiscia
 * DougHolmes
 * PatCassidy


 * Expecting:
 * BoNewman
 * RaviSharma
 * FrankOlken
 * MichelleRaymond (delayed entry likely)
 * ... if you are coming to the meeting, please add your name above (plus your affiliation, if you aren't already a member of the community) above, or e-mail  so that we can reserve enough resources to support everyone's participation. ...


 * Regrets:
 * EdDodds
 * ForestLin
 * FabianNeuhaus (conflicting meeting schedule)
 * MatthewWest
 * JohnSowa (schedule conflict)
 * ChrisChute (traveling)
 * BartGajderowicz (traveling)
 * MikeDean
 * BillNichols
 * RexBrooks

Agenda Ideas:
please insert below (along with your name for follow-up purposes)


 * ref Steve's invitation
 * OntologySummit2009 postmortem - review what went well this year, and what should be improved
 * follow-up action planning
 * discuss preliminary thoughts for the next summit
 * Discuss a process that would be reusable year to year for integrating different Summit threads and see a pattern or value to advancing the ontology themes and the practice of the disciplines of ontology including Upper ontologies, standards, architectures, applications domains and success areas and gaps.(RaviSharma)

Resources:

 * OntologySummit2009 Homepage
 * OntologySummit2009_Communique (version 1.1.0) with list of endorsers
 * Today's '''Session: opening slides
 * Anyone interested in continuing the dialog should subscribe and post to the [ontology-based-standards] mailing list
 * one may subscribe/unsubscribe (or configure their subscription) at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-based-standards

Agenda & Proceedings:
(see process above to participate in the discussion)


 * Issues that arose
 * Projects as examples vs. endorsed priorities
 * Merits of particular approaches and efforts
 * Limitations of SI units
 * UN/CEFACT CCTS as "ontological"


 * Next steps  a process for addressing or resolving issues
 * Ongoing discussion forum
 * Checking in with the example projects
 * Identifying and tracking other good examples


 * Logistical feedback


 * Next year's summit ideas


 * Next meeting: in about 3 months for our first "project progress report" session; but probably a session much sooner to delver into the "Unit of Measure" ontology details ... watch out for announcements on the mailing list

Transcript of the online chat during the session:
(slightly edited for clarity) 

VNC2: Welcome to the OntologySummit2009: Follow-up and Action Planning Call - Thu 2009-05-14 OntologySummit2009 postmortem and follow-up planning conference call Chair: Dr. SteveRay

VNC2: Please refer to session details at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2009_05_14

anonymous1 morphed into BaharehHeravi

PeterYim: will " anonymous" participants please morph into their WikiWord-name-based identity by clicking on the "Settings" button (at top center)

anonymous1 morphed into DavidLeal

anonymous morphed into DennisThomas

anonymous2 morphed into FrankChum

anonymous3 morphed into LinePouchard

anonymous4 morphed into KurtConrad

anonymous6 morphed into DavidPrice

anonymous1 morphed into GeraldRadack

anonymous5 morphed into BillMcCarthy

anonymous7 morphed into MarkCarlisle

anonymous2: THis is Duane - how do I morph?

anonymous morphed into PatHayes

PatHayes: Duane: hit Settings, at top.

anonymous2 morphed into DuaneNickull

DuaneNickull: thanks

MikeBennett: BillNichols sends apologies

anonymous morphed into BrandNiemann

anonymous morphed into DougHolmes

anonymous1 morphed into [[DavidCoggeshall]]

PatHayes morphed into PatHayes

PatHayes: (ref. the Communique wording ... end first paragraph) I still have problems with this wording. "..., as illustrated..."can be read as a restriction, meaning "as opposed to others we do not mention." Why not put a stop after 'to standards', and have the illustrations in a separate sentence.

MikeBennett: Units as a concept also needs to be able to deal with monetary units and so on - whether as part of the physical units ontology or in a wider framework.

PatHayes: How do I re-mute myself?

PeterYim: " *2 " to mute your phone again

PatHayes: tnx

anonymous1 morphed into KatherineGoodier

MikeBennett: Note that under the Financial heading there are 2 things: The EDM Council Semantics Repository which I can happily provide regular reports on; and the more aspirational agenda item from Bill Nichols, though I assume he would be able to provide updates, but it's not "an ontology" as the EDMCouncil repository is

SteveRay: '''Discussion and a quick poll on which mailing list we should use, for our "ontology-based standards" discussion, going forward'''

PatHayes: I would strongly support having a separate list. The general forum is already overloaded.

DeborahMacPherson: ontologies and standards list is fine with me, there is too much traffic on ontolog proper

HowardMason: Concur - we need to separate theoretical discussions from practical developments

KatherineGoodier: I think it went better than in previous years. We are getting much better at this. Peter has great pictures of most of us already!

PavithraKenjige: Facebook

GeraldRadack: We could actually use Facebook, rather than trying to duplicate it on the Wiki.

PavithraKenjige: use facebook

PatHayes: Laurent: agreed this is a nice idea. I can make a webpage if people can send me their photos. But using facebook is a neat idea.

MikeBennett: Linked-in is Facebook for grown-ups

LinePouchard: Facebook is fine with me

PavithraKenjige: Okay... we can post a picture!

MikeBennett: Can yoiu clarify what Yes means?

LinePouchard: I got overloaded with the theoretical discussions, separating them from practical discussions seemed interesting.

PeterYim: for onward discussion using a new list - vote count 18

PeterYim: for onward discussion using the existing [ontolog-forum] list - vote count 3

PeterYim: I'll set up a new list to handle the discussion then (give me a few days to get that done)

PeterYim: note that Ontolog should just be a "good conversation" (in John Seely Brown's sense of a "community of practice") ... real project should be executed in more appropriate settings like ISO, OASIS, W3C, etc.

DavidPrice: Quarterly update telecon sounds like a good idea.

LinePouchard: What Peter suggested seems a good idea. Not everyone want to follow every project

LinePouchard: I referred to having several quarterly Tcons where projects are distributed, as reviewing all projects in one Tcon seems too much.

anonymous1 morphed into PatCassidy

BillMcCarthy: If we set up a separate financial list, ISO/IEC 15944-4 (the Open-edi accounting & economic ontology (REA-based) is definitely interested in working with MikeBennett and others.

PatHayes: Bill, can you put me on the Cc list for news of that topic? Thanks. phayes[at]ihmc.us

MikeBennett: @Bill: great news

MikeBennett: @Bill we should talk about this more off line

PatHayes: pass on my comment, it was only an endorsement of Peter's comment on the role of ontolog.

PeterYim: we hope every project will maintain a project-page on the Ontolog Wiki ... and point us to their work site (say at an ISO WG, OASIS TC, etc.)

MikeBennett: Thanks for the reminder Peter. Are there any special requirements for how we do that or is just a matter of creating a new page?

PeterYim: @ MikeBennett: there is an (optional) project page template that one can use as a reference - see: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?WikiHomePage#nidK

MikeBennett: Thanks, will do that

PeterYim: for those who need a collaborative work environment (CWE) for their project, Ontolog will be happy to incubate the project (on the Ontolog-CWE) while they look for a "home" for their project(s)

KatherineGoodier: '''Can we all indicate which standards we are interested in using our edit ability to this page?'''

FrankChum: Katherine, I'm interested in Ontology and Standards for Oil and Gas.

KatherineGoodier: Thanks, Frank. I will start a little table for our meeting notes....

DavidLeal: Katherine, I'm interested in Oil and Gas and Units

KatherineGoodier: Thanks David!

LinePouchard: Katherine: I am interested in Connecting ISO/IEC 11179 to data sets and geospatial Catalog mediation.

KatherineGoodier: Thanks Line!

SteveRay: Question: what topic would you suggest for next year's summit?

FrankChum: Since there are a lot of interests recently on UOM, may I suggest upper ontology as a topic for next year's summit conference?

MikeBennett: Agree with upper ontology and /or foundational ontology, ontology framework and all that (including what those terms mean and what's useful)

FrankChum: Topic for next year: Business Cases and Use Cases

PeterYim: topic for the next summit (this was first proposed by BarrySmith after OntologySummit2008 - education and training (to give the world more) ontologists

FrankChum: Upper Ontology as standards

MichaelGruninger: Collecting use cases (semantic integration, decision support, search) that demonstrate the benefit of ontologies to ontology-skeptics

PatHayes: +1 to MichaelGruninger's idea. We need some evidential support for any thesis (such as the utility of an 'upper ontology') before trying to convince others of it. Right now we have little more than religious fervor for most of these topics, seems to me.

PatCassidy: One possibility for next year's summit is the use of ontologies in natural language processing tasks. I think this is important because from what I have seen thus far, any complex ontology will be very hard to use without a good NL interface to the ontology. A well-functioning interface will be both a tool to make an ontology easier to use and a demonstration of how it can be used. The interface could implement a controlled English, using a vocabulary of a few thousand words.

FrankChum: Michael, ditto

MikeBennett: Sorry, got to drop off for another call

PeterYim: bye, Mike .. thanks for coming!

LaurentLiscia: My own experience is that there are very few ontology skeptics - mostly people who know nothing about ontologies.

LaurentLiscia: Adoption is key - and we're not talking about "marketing" somehow. Or popularization. These are dreded but critical words.

PatHayes: @Laurent: my experience is the opposite. BUt in any case we must be very careful not to oversell, to risk a backlash. Anyone with an AI background knows the horror stories of the AI winter. FWIW, I am something of an ontology skeptic myself.

PavithraKenjige: Unless you have business use case one can have do the roi

FrankChum: People seeing use cases can spark ideas of how they would use ontology in their own environment.

DuaneNickull: agree

DuaneNickull: the interface has to be easy to understand. In 1997 we developed a natural language interface similar to the wolfram alpha one for GoXML. users loved being able to ask questions like "find me a {noun} {that is} a {ontology concept}.

DavidPrice: This conversation no longer has any value. Steve ... suggest stopping it for now.

LaurentLiscia: I have to drop off - but @ PatHayes: I'm noticing that we are raising the issue of AI again. And I would argue that this is not a dirty acronym. It was a winter for a lot of reasons - but now it's Spring

LaurentLiscia: Toodaloo.

FrankChum: Topic: Getting Ontology into the Mainstream ... (Peter)

PatHayes: A topic might be >>barriers to ontology use<<, which allows discussion of use cases and also attempts to give more general analyses of issues of applying ontologies in practice. Even Pat C.'s topic might fit in there

DeborahMacPherson: Need to sign off - will look for the new list and thanks!

FrankChum: A more positive language would be preferred

PeterYim: I suggest we pick our Summit topic in terms of its "strategic" value to our agenda, which, for Ontolog (although Ontolog is not the only organizer) is to "to advancing the field of ontology, ontological engineering and semantic technology, and advocating their adoption into mainstream applications and international standards."

MichaelGruninger: I like PatHayes' suggestion.

DavidPrice: I like PatHayes' suggestion too. I also like the use of the word "barriers".

DavidPrice: That also lays the basis for future summits ... to address longer term barriers.

PeterYim: +1 on PatHayes' suggestion

FrankChum: How about overcoming barriers

PatHayes: Sign off.

KurtConrad: That was "naturalist decision making"?

PatHayes: Naturalistic decision making (NDM)

KurtConrad: Thanks, Pat

DavidPrice: What are we going to do any time soon on Units? Can we set up a telecon to follow-up soon?

FrankChum: signing off... Thanks everyone!

DavidLeal: Michel Bohms has offered to host a registry of units ontology activities on http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/w3pm/wiki/Main_Page. This could be a good idea with information about status, scope and ambitions.

DuaneNickull: thanks everyone!

KatherineGoodier: So long all

LinePouchard: thank you all

SteveRay: Thank you all for your participation.

PeterYim: thank you ... meeting adjourned 12:09pm PDT

Audio Recording of this Session:

 * To download the audio recording of the session, click here
 * the playback of the audio files require the proper setup, and an MP3 compatible player on your computer.
 * Conference Date and Time: 14-May-2009 10:43am~12:10pm PDT
 * Duration of Recording: 1 Hour 26 Minutes
 * Recording File Size: 9.8 MB (in mp3 format)

= session adjourned: 12:09pm PDT =

-- notes taken by: PeterYim / 2009.05.14-12:10 PDT; All participants, please review and edit to enhance accuracy and granularity of the documented proceedings.

For the record ...

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