ConferenceCall 2009 03 26

= OntologySummit2009 Panel Session - "Toward Ontology-based Standards" - Thu 26-Mar-2009  =

Subject: Toward Ontology-based Standards - A Synthesis
Session Chair: Dr. SteveRay (ISO 10303 STEP; ISO 18629 PSL) - Openning - [ slides ]

Confirmed Panelists:


 * Mr. HowardMason (Chair, ISO TC184/SC4, BAE Systems plc, UK) - "Summary of our Standards Community Panel Session" - [ slides ]
 * Professor MichaelGruninger (University of Toronto, ISO 18629 PSL) - "Summary of our Ontology Community Panel Session" - [ slides ]
 * Mr. DavidConnelly (CEO, Open Applications Group, Inc. (OAGi)) - "Improving OAGIS with Ontologies" - [ slides ]
 * Dr. KatherineGoodier (OpenOntologyRepository Initiative) - "Introducing the Open Ontology Repository (OOR) Use Cases Forum" - [ slides ]
 * Mr. DavidLeal (CAESAR Systems Limited) - "URI for quantities, units and scales" - [ slides ]
 * Mr. NicolasFigay (EADS) - "STEP APs Formalization Suggestions" - [ slides ]

Archives

 * Our panel's prepared slides can be accessed by clicking on each of the title links below:
 * Slides: . [ 0-Ray ] . [ 1-Mason ] . [ 2-Gruninger ] . [ 3-Connelly ] . [ 4-Goodier ] . [ 5-Leal ] . [ 6-Figay ]
 * [ Audio Recording of the session ] (mp3)
 * [ Transcript of the online chat session ] during the panel discussion ''

Conference Call Details

 * Date: Thursday, Mar. 26, 2009
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Attendees

 * Attended:
 * SteveRay
 * HowardMason
 * MichaelGruninger
 * DavidConnelly
 * KatherineGoodier
 * DavidLeal
 * NicolasFigay
 * PeterYim
 * Jerry Smith (DoD)
 * MatthewHettinger
 * JoelBender
 * Sylvere Krima (NIST)
 * Xenia Fiorentini (NIST)
 * Raphael Barbau (NIST)
 * LaurentLiscia
 * MichelleRaymond
 * Yildiray Kabak (METU; from AsumanDogac's team)
 * GeraldRadack
 * KurtConrad
 * Frank Chum (Chevron)
 * MikeAxelrod
 * MikeBennett
 * StuartTurner
 * TrishWhetzel


 * Expecting:
 * RexBrooks
 * DavidPrice
 * CameronRoss
 * AzamatAbdoullaev
 * ... if you are coming to the session, please add your name above (plus your affiliation, if you aren't already a member of the community) above; or e-mail  so that we can reserve enough resources to support everyone's participation. ...
 * ... if you are coming to the session, please add your name above (plus your affiliation, if you aren't already a member of the community) above; or e-mail  so that we can reserve enough resources to support everyone's participation. ...


 * Regrets:
 * LinePouchard
 * ChristopherSpottiswoode (withdrew from the panel)
 * EdDodds (will review the archives)

Agenda Ideas

 * Ideas for ontologized standards:
 * Units of Measure  or UnitsML with BIPM
 * MathML
 * ISO 15926  Matthew West
 * ISO 10303-209 (structural analysis)  David Leal
 * OAG specs  David Connelly
 * Financial specs (MDDL, FIX, FpML etc. and ISO 20022)  liaison via FISD DMWG with Bill Nichols
 * Financial specs reverse engineering into semantics repository (EDM Council) - Mike Bennett liaising with above
 * ISO 22745  ECCMA Open Technical Dictionary  Gerry Radack
 * ISO 19440  Enterprise model  David Shorter
 * Product properties - David Price
 * Product structure - David Leal
 * STEP APs (ARM+AIM+ARMAIMMappings+Modules+ConformanceClass or Options) - Nicolas Figay


 * ( ... add ideas and suggestions here)
 * Extensible Business Reporting Language (XBRL) Taxonomies
 * Universal Data Element Framework - OpenGroup.org/udef

Resources

 * OntologySummit2009_StandardsAndOntologies
 * OntologySummit2009_StandardsCommunityPerspectives
 * OntologySummit2009_OntologyCommunityPerspectives
 * OntologySummit2009_Communique/Draft

Agenda

 * 1. Introduction - SteveRay. 5 minutes
 * 2. Summary of panel session #1 - HowardMason (confirmed). 15 minutes
 * 3. Summary of panel session #2 - MichaelGruninger (confirmed). 15 minutes
 * 4. Suggestions from OAGi - DavidConnelly (confirmed). 5-10 minutes
 * 5. Suggestions from OOR - KatherineGoodier (confirmed). 5-10 minutes
 * 6. A Units of Measure project - DavidLeal (confirmed) 5-10 minutes
 * 7. STEP APs Formalization Suggestions - NicolasFigay 5-10 minutes
 * 8. Discussion and compilation of a short list of future project ideas. 30 minutes
 * 9. Discussion of the communique to be presented on April 7th. 10 minutes

Proceedings

 * please refer to the archives above

Q & A and Open Discussion:

 * please refer to process above

IM Chat Transcript captured during the session: ... (lightly edited for clarity)

PeterYim: Welcome to the OntologySummit2009 Panel Session - "Toward Ontology-based Standards" - Thu 26-Mar-2009

Subject: Toward Ontology-based Standards - A Synthesis   (1VOG)

Session Chair: Dr. SteveRay (ISO 10303 STEP; ISO 18629 PSL) - Openning

Confirmed Panelists:   (1VCD)

. Please refer to session details at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2009_03_26 .
 * Mr. HowardMason (Chair, ISO TC184/SC4, BAE Systems plc, UK) - "Summary of our Standards Community Panel Session"
 * Professor MichaelGruninger (University of Toronto, ISO 18629 PSL) - "Summary of our Ontology Community Panel Session"
 * Mr. DavidConnelly (CEO, Open Applications Group, Inc. (OAGi)) - "Improving OAGIS with Ontologies"
 * Dr. KatherineGoodier (OpenOntologyRepository Initiative) - "Introducing the Open Ontology Repository (OOR) Use Cases Forum"
 * Mr. DavidLeal (CAESAR Systems Limited) - "URI for quantities, units and scales"
 * Mr. NicolasFigay (EADS) - "STEP APs Formalization Suggestions"

anonymous morphed into [[YildirayKabak]]

[[YildirayKabak]]: Hi Peter, this is Yildiray Kabak. I'm assistant of Prof. AsumanDogac

anonymous morphed into MichelleRaymond

anonymous1 morphed into KurtConrad

anonymous morphed into KatherineGoodier

k goodier morphed into KatherineGoodier

laurent morphed into laurent_oasis -> LaurentLiscia

NicolasFigay: Re engineer existing standards is a good idea, as it appears from analysis and mapping exercise with ontology language that numerous ambiguities exist. Such exercise was done on AP224 and AP203 by EADS

JoelBender: EADS = European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company?

NicolasFigay: Good acronym for EADS

MikeBennett: Another good example is the various standards in the financial space - MDDL, FIX, ISO 20022, FpML, XBRL etc.

NicolasFigay: What about replacing "integration of standards" by "federation of standards"?

anonymous morphed into [[YildirayKabak]]

JoelBender: integration and federation mean different things to IT folks.

[[FrankChum]]: Energistics for Oil and Gas Industry standards

NicolasFigay: Integration and Federation is also different for system engineers - or for enterprise collaboration

NicolasFigay: Federation was here used for agregation of knowledge trunks formalized with heterogeneous language, at posteriori

SteveRay: David - we lost your voice.

[[FrankChum]]: May need to call back in

SteveRay: OK. In the interests of time, I asked Katherine to talk about OOR, then I'll let you continue your talk.

DavidConnelly: I am back in now

[[FrankChum]]: The Society of Petroleum Engineers is starting an Open Oilfield Ontology Repository.

NicolasFigay: Is this repository related to Reference Data Libraries POSC CAESAR?

[[FrankChum]]: Not particularly. The POSC CAESAR RDL is related to ISO 15926.

[[FrankChum]]: The SPE initiative is inviting O&G companies and industry standards bodies to submit oilfield related ontologies to the repository.

LaurentLiscia: What I'm gathering from these very educational presentations like a good bridge between ontologies and standards are: the ability to use ontology technology to validate the consistency of standards -beyond test cases and assertions, this might to a new kind of formal validation system.

NicolasFigay: Yes - it can be imagine with ontology language base on some logic

LaurentLiscia: I'm very intrigued with Open Oilfield

LaurentLiscia: Frank, we are creating at OASIS a member section called OASIS Blue

LaurentLiscia: Which is all about energy and sustainability

[[FrankChum]]: Laurent, good to know that. I'll look into it.

LaurentLiscia: http://www.oasis-open.org/resources/white-papers/blue/

LaurentLiscia: The Member Section is forming and we definitely need ontology experts to make some of those future standards work.

LaurentLiscia: We also have the Conservation Commons on Board.

LaurentLiscia: Is there a link for Open OIlfield?

[[FrankChum]]: Maybe SPE initiative can join forces with what OASIS Blue

[[FrankChum]]: http://o4oil.org/o4oil.html

[[YildirayKabak]]: In OASIS SET TC we represented OAGIS Components and Fields through OWL. We also represented UBL and GS1 BIEs through OWL. With these ontologies and with the help of description logic reasoners and rule engines, we can find the relations among the semantically equivalent components, automatically.

HowardMason: You probably need to look at the Open O&M consortium and MIMOSA who are also active in operation of oil and gas plants through ISO TC 184/SC 5 (not SC 4)

DavidConnelly: Wow, that is interesting

DavidConnelly: maybe we should connect

[[FrankChum]]: Yes. Refineries are connected to MIMOSA.

MikeBennett: Good point about equations and MathML. There are also equations in financial securities but somewhat different to engineering equations.

[[FrankChum]]: Upper ontology for financial securities?

[[YildirayKabak]]: Hi David, I will send you more details about our work tommorrow.

MikeBennett: Indeed. For financial securities I have had to create temporary upper ontology stuff for math, geog, business, accounting, risk etc. all of which I would hope to find a more stable upper ontology to draw on.

DavidConnelly: Thanks

[[YildirayKabak]]: Ok. Thank you.

HowardMason: You also need to note that the basic business transactions covering finance, order/invoice/pay, shipping are ALL becoming based on the ebXML Core Components - OASIS, SWIFT and OAGi are all involved alongside industry and regional initiatives

[[FrankChum]]: Using upper ontologies can be a challenge. Good best practices are needed to be shared.

MikeBennett: @ Howard - agreed.

LaurentLiscia: I resonate with Howard. Then again I would note that Nicolas has uttered one word (or rather a phrase): intelligent agent, that I think we are dancing around a bit. Is machine intelligence a can of worms?

LaurentLiscia: Let me qualify: "reasoning engine" is probably less contentious - thank you Nicolas.

NicolasFigay: Laurent is true, it is more reasoning engine. But some were also calling it intelligent agents - even if not appropriate.

[[FrankChum]]: Semantic is the key for machine intelligence

MichelleRaymond: The agent's intelligence is not of issue. Focus should be on: 1) identification of 'input' available to the agent/engine and 'output' from the agent/engine, 2) the formal representation of the structure and content for 'input' and 'output' and 3) the place of the agent/engine in the "world".

PeterYim: I am glad DavidConnelly brought up UN/CEFACT UCM in his presentation ... Scott Hinkelman (Acting Vice-chair of UN/CEFACT TMG and Chair for their Unified Context Methodology (UCM) Project) was presenting at the OASIS SET TC just yesterday. While "context" is, indeed, not a low-hanging fruit in what we are trying to do here, we should definitely try to start a dialog with their working group in earnest. ... (I did suggest that to Scott, but maybe David could be our liaison, if you are already involved in that work)

DavidConnelly: Peter, I am on that UCM Working Group with Scott, and would be glad to be a liaison

PeterYim: great! Thanks, David

PeterYim: Just to provide the url to the OOR work that MichaelGruninger and KatherineGoodier brought up earlier - please see: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OpenOntologyRepository

PeterYim: what's relevant is that the first public sandbox instance of the OOR is now online - see: http://oor-01.cim3.net/

PeterYim: (further, re the OOR sandbox) if the eventuality is a federated repository of standards that are persistently available (on the web, probably) ... this could be one of the sandboxes that we can play around with those ideas ... the OOR team will be maintaining at least a sandbox instance and a production instance of the OOR ... and is hoping to federate with any other organizations that are planning to host ontology repositories

NicolasFigay: The link of the experimental semantic repository, with extended AP as OWL resources: http://www.plm-interop.net/web/plminterop/semanticRepository

anonymous morphed into [[RaphaelBarbau]]

StuartTurner: The licensing comment is an extremely important one and although "open source" is gaining traction, it applies to source code, not content. Encouraging use of open content licensure for creative works, including models, ontologies, documentation is so important (e.g. Creative Commons, Non-Commerical, Attribution, Share-Alike Unported). Fortunately, recent moves by NIH, and MIT and even PloS to not only encourage, but require this for academic research and publication is encouraging.

SteveRay: Thanks for attending.

MichelleRaymond: My desire is to see standards represented in formats that are machine interpretable and formats that facilitate human understanding.

LaurentLiscia: Terribly sorry, I have to drop off the call ... Urgent call from OASIS staff ...

LaurentLiscia: Thanks all!

JoelBender: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt

[[FrankChum]]: Is the IEEE UOM upper ontology the same way?

PeterYim: @ [[FrankChum]] - quite a few of the IEEE SUO players are involved - the OOR scope covers *not only* upper ontologies, but also domain ontologies - see some earlier thougths in regard to moving "Toward An Open Ontology Repository" at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2008

[[FrankChum]]: @Peter Thanks!

DavidLeal: Some work on the use of terms such as "should" in engineering has been done in Gellish - http://sourceforge.net/projects/gellish

HowardMason: While ISO seems to be fairly flexible in looking at new business models, the national standards bodies - ANSI, BSI, AFNOR, DIN are still wedded to publishing paper. So even the new standards as databases approach offers different levels of access, with different models. So definitions may be freely available, but other information may be subject to payment. We need to ensure national bodies respond to the opportunity

MikeBennett: EDM council semantics repository project, aligns with the ones i mentioned

DavidConnelly: OAGIS is doing the implementation verification for CCTS 3.0

PeterYim: some work on "ontologizing" the UN/CEFACT CCTS by Ontolog members can be seen at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CctRepresentation

DavidConnelly: Interesting Peter, have you started to look at CCTS 3.0

DavidConnelly: btw, Peter, OAGIS uses CCTS 2.01 in the standard now

PeterYim: @DavidConnelly - not quite ... that pilot project has (sort of) ended a long time ago ... with a response to the request for comments on CCTS v2.01 and suggested a dialog (which we haven't yet had)

DavidConnelly: ok, thanks Peter

JoelBender: Thank you.

[[FrankChum]]: Thank you all!

[[RaphaelBarbau]]: thank you!

PeterYim: great session ... thank you!

DavidLeal: Very interesting, thank you.

MikeBennett: To clarify on EDM Council, we took the existing XML and UML standards ISO 20022/ISO19312, MDDL, etc. as a start point to try and reverse engineer into some representation of semantics. We use a UML based OWL model (with some additional extensions) to provide somerhing for business experts to validate. We are talking closely with the above mentioned existing standards folks to try to reverse engineer rather than reinvent. This is all mid-way through happening now.

-- end of transcript --


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Audio Recording of this Session

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 * Conference Date and Time:	26-Mar-2009 10:38am~12:30pm PDT
 * Duration of Recording:	1 Hour 40 Minutes
 * Recording File Size:	       11.5 MB (in mp3 format)
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