ConferenceCall 2008 12 11

= SemanticWiki mini-series Session-3 - Thu 11-Dec-2008 =


 * Mini-series Title: Semantic Wikis: The Wiki Way to the Semantic Web


 * Session-3 Topic: Semantic Wiki Technology (2): MediaWiki, SemanticMediaWiki, Extensions, Add-on's and other Enhancements


 * Session Chair: Mr. MaxVoelkel (FZI, Karlsruhe, Germany)


 * Panelists:
 * Mr. MarkusKroetzsch (AIFB, Karlsruhe) - "SemanticMediaWiki (SMW)"
 * Mr. YaronKoren (independent software developer) - "Semantic Forms, Semantic Drilldown, Semantic Result Formats, Semantic Google Maps, Semantic Compound Queries and Data Transfer"
 * Mr. DanielHansch (ontoprise, Karlsruhe) & Dr. MarkGreaves (Vulcan) - "the SMW Halo extension & SMW+"
 * Dr. RaphaelVolz & Mr. PhilippZaltenbach (ontoprise, Karlsruhe) - "A Rules Prototype in SMW"
 * Mr. PeterYim (CIM3) & Professor KenBaclawski (NEU) - PMWX - "Fine-Grained Addressability in Purple MediaWiki and Purple SemanticMediaWiki"
 * Dr. JieBao, Dr. LiDing & Mr. ZhenningShangguan (RPI/TWC) - "Concept Modeling on SemanticMediaWiki"


 * Lightning Talks: - [ Please note that: in order for the community to be exposed to the full range of technologies, an IPR policy waiver is applicable to this ]
 * Dr. PeterHaase & Mr. DanielHerzig (AIFB, Karlsruhe) - "Ask the Wiki - An Approach for Semantic Search in SMW"


 * Resource:
 * Panelists' presentations: [ 1-Kroetzsch & demo ] . [ 2-Koren ] . [ 3-Hansch/Greaves ] . [ 4-Volz/Zaltenbach ] . [ 5-Yim/Baclawski ] . [ 6-Bao/Li/Shangguan ]
 * Lightning Talks: . [ L1-Haase/Herzig ]
 * audio recording of the session (mp3)
 * transcript of the online chat session during the panel discussion


 * see the developing program of this mini-series at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?SemanticWiki/Prep#nid1NQA

Conference Call Details

 * Date: Thursday, Dec. 11, 2008
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Attendees

 * Attended:
 * MaxVoelkel
 * MarkusKroetzsch
 * YaronKoren
 * DanielHansch
 * PhilippZaltenbach
 * Andrew Cowell (PNNL)
 * PeterYim
 * KenBaclawski
 * JieBao
 * DanielHerzig
 * ZhenningShangguan
 * PatrickNagel
 * Mary Parmelee (MITRE)
 * EdDodds
 * RexBrooks
 * Kathleen Cottay (NASA/JSC)
 * John Thompson (Boeing)
 * TobiasKuhn
 * SyamaChaudhuri
 * Cathy Ran (Boeing)
 * BruceBray
 * Elizabeth Pullen (Drew University)
 * MiguelSilva
 * Gully Burns (USC/ISI)
 * Thomas Russ (USC/ISI)
 * Jose Luis Ambite (USC/ISI)
 * MarcoNeumann
 * RobFrost
 * MichelleRaymond
 * Przemek Piotrowski (Wikia)
 * ChristophLange
 * PeterDolog
 * ArturoSanchez
 * AdrianWalker
 * David Jones (Boeing Phantom Works)
 * DaveMcComb
 * SusanTurnbull
 * RonWheeler
 * Stuart Turner (UC Davis)
 * DougHolmes
 * BrandNiemann
 * Viral Gupta (Northeastern University)
 * Tejas Parikh (Northeastern University)
 * FrankOlken
 * MarkGreaves
 * GuoqianJiang
 * Rick Kiefer
 * Celeste Plaisance
 * MichelleRaymond
 * Miguel Silva
 * Ted Bashor
 * Tom Caruso
 * HaroldSolbrig
 * ElgarPichler
 * RaviSharma
 * Martin Becker
 * Stephen Larson
 * GaryBergCross
 * NancyWiegand
 * Jason Zou
 * SebastianSchaffert
 * Chris Mitchell
 * ... if you are coming to the meeting, please add your name above (plus your affiliation, if you aren't already a member of the community), or e-mail  so that we can reserve enough resources to support everyone's participation. ...


 * Regrets:
 * KathyLaskey
 * Nathan Yergler (Creative Commons)

SemanticWiki mini-series Background
The Semantic Wiki mini-series a 6-month mini-series comprising Talks, Panel Discussions and Online Discourse. The series is co-organized by FZI Karlsruhe, Mayo Clinic, Ontolog, RPI Tetherless World Constellation and Salzburg Research, Austria. This represents a collaborative effort between members from academia, research, software engineering, semantic web and ontology communities. The 6-month mini-series intends to bring together developers, administrators and users of semantic wikis, and provide a platform where they can conveniently share ideas and insights. Through a series of (mainly virtual) talks, panel discussions, online discourse and even face-to-face meetings, participants will survey the state-of-the-art in semantic wiki technology and get exposure to exemplary use cases and applications. Together, they will study trends, challenges and the outlook for semantic wikis, and explore opportunities for collaboration in the very promising technology, approach or philosophy which people has labeled "semantic wiki."

This series of virtual events will dovetail into the face-to-face workshop: "Social Semantic Web: Where Web 2.0 Meets Web 3.0" at the AAAI Spring Symposium (March 23-25, 2009 at Stanford, California, USA - see: http://tw.rpi.edu/sss09 ).

See: our SemanticWiki mini-series homepage and the developing program for the rest of the series.

Agenda & Proceedings:
Session Tile: MediaWiki, SemanticMediaWiki, Extensions, Add-on's and other Enhancements

Session Abstract:
by MaxVoelkel


 * The purpose of this session is to introduce and present in depth the SemanticMediaWiki extension and the universe of extensions to this extension: What can be achieved with them and how data is used in them.


 * Talk 1 (15 min): MarkusKroetzsch: Semantic MediaWiki
 * This talk gives a brief introductory overview of the SemanticMediaWiki (SMW) system, which currently happens to be one of the most widely deployed semantic wikis. The talk reviews SMW's basic functionalities and underlying technologies,. Moreover, various relevant applications of SMW that can be observed today, ranging from classical wiki sites to new innovative scenarios, are introduced as well.


 * Talk 2 (15-20min): YaronKoren: Semantic Forms, Semantic Drilldown, Semantic Result Formats, Semantic Google Maps, Semantic Compound Queries and Data Transfer
 * This talk covers the MediaWiki extensions listed.


 * Talk 3 (10min): MarkGreaves & DanielHansch: The HALO-Extension
 * The HALO-Extension to SMW: We present current feature-highlights and ways forward.


 * Talk 4 (10 min): RaphaelVolz & PhilippZaltenbach: A Rules Prototype in SMW
 * We present a rule-knowledge enabled SMW.


 * Talk 5 (10 min): PeterYim and KenBaclawski: PMWX - Fine-Grained Addressability in Purple MediaWiki and Purple SemanticMediaWiki
 * Purple MediaWiki (PMWX) is an extension of MediaWiki that provide PurpleNumber support to MediaWiki and SemanticMediaWiki. It enables fine-grained addressability to wiki content. The PMWX project engaged in a detailed study of related efforts, prepared a list of requirements, and developed a system architecture.  The PMWX project has just released a reference implementation as free and open source software.  This talk reports on this project, including the architectural and design decisions that were considered, and gives a simple example of annotation and reasoning.


 * Talk 6 (10min): JieBao: Concept Modeling on SMW
 * In the talk, we will show how SMW can be applied in modeling knowledge that is not natively supported by the SMW core, when co-opted with several other extensions. We show use cases in OWL editing, controlled natural language interface, rule inference and integrity constraint checking.


 * Lighting Talk(s), (3 minutes each)

the information need, which can then be selected and further refined by the user via facets. We have implemented this approach to semantic search as an extension to SemanticMediaWiki. A demonstration is available at http://semanticweb.org/wiki/Special:ATWSpecialSearch
 * Lightning-Talk 1 (3 min.): PeterHaase & DanielHerzig: Ask the Wiki - An Approach for Semantic Search in SMW
 * Semantic wikis extend wiki platforms with the ability to represent structured information in a machine-processable way. Ontop of the structured information in the wiki, novel ways to search, browse, and present the wiki content become possible. However, while powerful query languages offer new opportunities for semantic search, users typically are not willing to use the syntax of formal query languages. In this work we present an approach to semantic search that combines the expressiveness and capabilities of structured queries with the simplicity of keyword interfaces and faceted browsing: Users articulate their information need using keyword queries, which are translated by the system into structured, conjunctive queries. This translation result may result in multiple possible interpretations of


 * Q&A and Open Discussion:
 * refer to the details above on how to participate in the discussion

Questions and Discussion captured from the chat session:
Edited transcript ...

PatrickNagel: hi

YaronKoren: Hello!

PatrickNagel: I think i'm in the worst timezone 2:15 in the morning over here.

PatrickNagel: *drinking coffee*

YaronKoren: Oh yeah, I forgot youre in Shanghai...

DanielHerzig: Hi

PatrickNagel: let me try this voip stuff

MarkusKroetzsch: works well for me

PatrickNagel: is there a way to call in via sip? probably not...

MarkusKroetzsch: This thing costs 20cent per minute!

PatrickNagel: whoa

ChristophLange: hi all

MaxVoelkel: Hello everybody

TobiasKuhn: hi everyone!

DanielHerzig: @Markus, did you use the local number to dial in?

MarkusKroetzsch: yes

MarkusKroetzsch: but via Skype

DanielHerzig: hmm, maybe the US one is even cheaper

MarkusKroetzsch: I will try

YaronKoren: Oh, so Skype is working? It wasn't last time I tried, two sessions ago.

DanielHerzig: its working fine for me right now

MarkusKroetzsch: Ah, I am back.

MarkusKroetzsch: Using the US number, it's only 1.7 cents per minute!

MaxVoelkel: All slides are here: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2008_12_11#nid1PJ0

MaxVoelkel: Thanks to the purple numbers

PeterDolog: hi everyone once again

GuoqianJiang: Hello, Yaron, Danial and all

YaronKoren: Hello!

GuoqianJiang: nice to have this smw users gathering after last meeting

FrankOlken: Hi, this is FrankOlken from Arlington, VA.

HaroldSolbrig: Hello Frank from Arlington VA.

MaxVoelkel: Demo-Link: http://korrekt.org/page/Ontolog

DanielHerzig: i can't access snpedia, can you?

YaronKoren: It's been very slow in the last few weeks; thankfully, I believe that's not a result of SMW.

HaroldSolbrig: Mayo thinks that ChikiPedia is inappropriate - it is a blocked site

YaronKoren: They're blocking research.

MarkusKroetzsch: The OWL 2 Working Group Wiki is at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/OWL_Working_Group

MarkusKroetzsch: On this page, you can find links to all current documents detailing this language.

MarkusKroetzsch: The working group is happy to receive comments on last call documents.

MarkusKroetzsch: See http://www.w3.org/News/2008#item204 for details.

ArturoSanchez: yes

MarkusKroetzsch: agrees with Yaron here, it is not very convenient to speak for 20min without any feedback whatsoever ...

MarkusKroetzsch: The Google Chart API Yaron mentioned is at http://code.google.com/intl/de-DE/apis/chart/

MarkusKroetzsch: ... it is not part of SMW, since it needs to send your data to Google, which you may not want.

HaroldSolbrig: Yaron - we can do the XML to Template conversion...

HaroldSolbrig: Got a generic XSLT transform to do exactly that.

DanielHansch: Hi Harold! sounds interesting - you have more info about the xml->forms transformation?

Andrew Cowell: Yaron, just a quick thanks for all your work, especially SemanticForms.

MaxVoelkel: ***For the next talks: Please try to keep your times very strict***

DanielHansch: ok

MarkusKroetzsch: Yaron, the XML export you mentioned: wouldn't it be possible to make a result printer that creates a very similar XML export based on semantic data (since you mentioned that RDF is not what you needed)? Then you would not have to deal with templates.

YaronKoren: Yes, but that might be unnecessary work, if you have templates.

MarkusKroetzsch: True, but handling templates can introduce additional difficulties.

YaronKoren: Maybe we should take this offline?

MarkusKroetzsch: Yes, let's not start side chats

HaroldSolbrig: Hello Daniel - I'll e-mail you something later today.

BruceBray: Which page is he on?

ChristophLange: still #2

MarkusKroetzsch: You can follow the slides at http://vnc2.cim3.net:5800/ (password "ontolog")

BruceBray: that port blocked for me and many others

MaxVoelkel: You can also simply download the PDF presentations

MaxVoelkel: link: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2008_12_11#nid1PJ0

DanielHerzig: Can I install any mediawiki extensions on smw+?

DanielHansch: you can install the halo-extension on top of any mediawiki extension.

DanielHerzig: Does smw+ allows extensions the way the regular smw or mediawiki do?

DanielHansch: smw+ is intended to be selfcontained and comes with a useful set of extensions.

DanielHansch: yes - of course.

MarkusKroetzsch: SMW+ is essentially a "MediaWiki distribution" that bundles related extensions

MarkusKroetzsch: so it can be customized like any MediaWiki

DanielHansch: i hope my talk was not too packed. i am happy to assist you with any inquiry

MarkGreaves: Daniel, your talk was definitely packed, but it was really a fun tour through SMW+!

DanielHansch: thanks, Mark

MarkusKroetzsch: How does this feature relate to SMW's Concepts?

Jason Zou: Daniel, I just installed Halo extension yesterday. And I liked it immediately. Good work

DanielHansch: Technically, there is no relation.

DanielHansch: Let me ask Philipp how this relates "conceptually".

GuoqianJiang: Daniel, is this simple rule extension available in next release?

MarkusKroetzsch: But concepts are "derived categories" too: http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Concepts

MarkusKroetzsch: ok, let's do that

DanielHansch: yes - we are planning to have that in the next release 1.5 - as an separate but compatible extension.

HaroldSolbrig: How many entities are in the db that you've applied the rules to? Are there issues w/ computational complexity?

DanielHansch: We have OntoBroker sitting in the backend of SMW and processing the rules.

DanielHansch: OntoBroker is the powerful reasoning engine out there (according to mass-processing tests).

DanielHansch: So, in the context of SMW, we did not (yet) reach any limit.

DanielHansch: But, of course, OntoBroker will choke if your rule base is faulty.

DanielHansch: Therefore we are planning for a "safety belt" coming with Rules and SMW. (e.g. debugging, unit tests for rules, etc)

BruceBray: Ken your voice is very light, can you get closer to your mic?

MaxVoelkel: Wow, this transclusion is really cool!

DanielHansch: Jason: thank you! Is your wiki publically accessible?

MarkusKroetzsch: I wonder whether this modelled OWL is also processed (e.g. in query answering), or if it is just stored (which is also a valid goal, of course).

GuoqianJiang: what's the difference between Rabbit and Ace language?

MarkusKroetzsch: Note that there is also the ACE-Wiki project, using ACE as the basis for a semantic wiki.

TobiasKuhn: Rabbit is designed specifically for OWL. ACE is a general purpose controlled natural language that is more expressive. A subset of ACE can be mapped to OWL.

YaronKoren: This isn't in response to anything, but it seems like the difference between the Jie / RPI's rules/modeling approach and Ontoprise's approach is that the former is structured as semantic properties, while the latter has its own database tables, if I understand things correctly.

TobiasKuhn: People interested in controlled natural languages should also have a look at AceWiki: http://attempto.ifi.uzh.ch/acewiki/

MarkusKroetzsch: Re Yaron: I think RPI's approach is about *meta modelling*, i.e. storing and editing rules and OWL in a semantic wiki, while Ontoprise's approach is to augment the data of the wiki using rules as additional *modelling* feature.

YaronKoren: "PSMW" looks exactly like PMW.

PeterYim: @YaronKoren - ref your "PSMW" looks exactly like PMW - Yes, PMW is MW with pmwx installed ... PSMW is SMW with pmwx installed (or more exactly, PSMW is MW with SMW and pmwx installed)

YaronKoren: Peter - yes, but how is it different from PMW with any other set of extensions installed?

PeterYim: pwmx provides *addressibility* not semantics ... it is meant to work with and complement the other semantic tools

KenBaclawski: @YaronKoren: The intention is to make it look exactly like SMW with PMWX installed. However, RDF statements can now have a subject that has finer granularity than just a page. This allows finer granularity for queries and reasoning.

YaronKoren: Ken: was that shown in the slides?

TobiasKuhn: @JieBao: is this system that you describe available somehow? online or as a download?

Stephen Larson: JieBao.. very nice presentation. Is the code behind your presentation open source or available somewhere? perhaps i have missed the link but i did not see it.

JieBao: our work are mainly wiki templates, and they are available at the example links

PhilippZaltenbach: @Jie: what reasoner are you using for doing inferencing?

TobiasKuhn: ... or can you give a pointer to a publication that discusses this system?

ChristophLange: @Markus, @Jie, could you explain the difference between the way the "concept modeling" extension creates OWL and does reasoning, and the default SMW way?

MarkusKroetzsch: I don not know the concept modelling extensions. SMW just follows the OWL semantics (for the features it supports).

JieBao: @ TobiasKuhn: it is on http://tw.rpi.edu/dev/cnl

MaxVoelkel: +++ NEWS: We just got notification that a fourth workshop on semantic wikis has been accepted at ESWC2009. Find all relevant links (and also links to
 * the* mailing list for the semantic wiki community) at http://semwiki.org +++

MarkusKroetzsch: The demo link in Peter's talk is: http://semanticweb.org/wiki/Special:ATWSpecialSearch

ChristophLange: @ MaxVoelkel: nice

JieBao: @Stephen Larson: links are on the slides

JieBao: @ PhilippZaltenbach: inference is encoded in semantic template so we do not use an external reasoner

MarkusKroetzsch: @ JieBao: But how can this inference be complete (as templates are computationally so much weaker than OWL)?

MaxVoelkel: http://semanticweb.org/wiki/Special:ATWSpecialSearch

ChristophLange: @JieBao: Is it the case that your extension is just a user-friendly frontend to SMW's OWL support, or is it different?

JieBao: @ ChristophLange: the OWL extension is so far just an editor and controlled natural language interface. We haven't done inference about OWL yet, but it is in the plan.

YaronKoren: This "Ask the Wiki" extension is pretty neat.

DanielHerzig: Thanks

ChristophLange: @Daniel / Peter: I'd suggest that you display the original query string on the "step 2" page as well

DanielHansch: very very nice!! congrats!

YaronKoren: I hope it gets released soon!

PatrickNagel: me too

JieBao: @Markus Krtzsch: I admit it is not complete

MarkusKroetzsch: @ JieBao: OK, that clarifies things for me. It would be very difficult to provide complete OWL+rules reasoning (not just in a wiki).

ChristophLange: @Jie, @Markus: thanks, I understood

Chris Mitchell: Question for YaronKoren RE: Semantic Forms: What scripting language is used for developing the form template via the "Editing Form:Event" example? Maybe Groovy, Velocity or simple wiki syntax?

MarkusKroetzsch: It is described on this page: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Forms#Defining_forms

DanielHansch: Ontoprise is logging off - thank you very much for organising this session! greetings, daniel and philipp.

ChristophLange: thanks for your cool presentations!

MaxVoelkel: Merry X-Mas to ontoprise!

GuoqianJiang: thanks, daniel

MaxVoelkel: ... if there are further questions, just raise your hands

PatrickNagel: i'm leaving, too. thanks a lot for the great talks and the well organised event!

ChristophLange: @ MaxVoelkel: but isn't your purple/semantics idea quite similar to template transclusion in SMW? If you include 20 templates into a single page, then the resulting page is similar to a page with 20 purple numbers (or say "fragment IDs") -- so the challenge is IMHO to provide an adequate GUI for accessing annotations of such fragments

anonymous2: Question for everyone: Has anyone considered integration with the Nepomuk Semantic Desktop?

ChristophLange: @anonymous2: Who are you?

MarkusKroetzsch: @anonymous2: that would be a nice project, but I am not aware of anyone pursuing this actively now.

MarkusKroetzsch: ... you can ask this question to Max, he is involved in Nepomuk

JieBao: @anonymous2: is there is demo (or screen shots) available for Nepomuk?

anonymous2: Please excuse me for not speaking vocally... riding noisy public transit

ChristophLange: KDE 4

MarkusKroetzsch: @Jie: Nepomuk is available for download, and part of KDE

MaxVoelkel: Integration of what exactly?

anonymous2: APIs and such for data

ChristophLange: maybe a wiki where you can annotate/import local files?

anonymous2: Thank you very much. This has answered my question just fine.

anonymous2: I am very interested in the XWiki Help Desk

TobiasKuhn: bye everone! it was a very interesting session!

MarkusKroetzsch says good bye to everyone!

MaxVoelkel: maybe we can keep the chat room open for some while to not kill all discussions

anonymous2: Would you believe I am doing all of this from my mobile phone?

EdDodds: Does anyone interact with any semantic efforts in the Joomla or Drupal communities? just curious...

EdDodds: @PeterYim I've posted the url to your PN presentation in the Drupal semantic web developers group. We'll see if that sparks any interest...

PeterYim: Thank you, Ed.

PeterYim: Great session ... thanks, everyone ... bibi!

Audio Recording of this Session

 * To download the audio recording of the session, click here
 * the playback of the audio files require the proper setup, and an MP3 compatible player on your computer.
 * Conference Date and Time:	11-Dec-2008 10:38am~1:05pm PST
 * Duration of Recording:	2 Hour 20 Minutes
 * Recording File Size:	       16.0 MB (in mp3 format)


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