ConferenceCall 2012 03 29

= OntologySummit2012: Session-12 - Thu 2012-03-29 =

Summit Theme: OntologySummit2012: "Ontology for Big Systems"

Session Topic: Organizing the 'Big' Communique

OntologySummit2012_Communique co-Lead Editors & Session co-Chairs:


 * ToddSchneider & AliHashemi ... intro-slides

Panelists:


 * Track Champions and Co-editors of the Communique
 * Track-1&2: Ontology for Big Systems and Systems Engineering - MatthewWest & HensonGraves - (Track-1&2 Synthesis page)
 * Track-3: Challenge: Ontology and Big Data - ErnieLucier & MaryBrady - (Track-3 Synthesis page)
 * Track-4: Large-Scale Domain Applications - SteveRay & TrishWhetzel - (Track-4 Synthesis page)
 * Cross-Track-A1: Ontology Quality and Large-Scale Systems - AmandaVizedom & MikeBennett - (Track-A1 Synthesis page)
 * Cross-Track-A2: Ontology for Federation and Integration of Systems - CoryCasanave & AnatolyLevenchuk - (Track-A2 Synthesis page)
 * OntologySummit2012_Symposium Co-chairs: RamSriram and MichaelGruninger
 * OntologySummit2012 General Co-chairs: LeoObrst and NicolaGuarino - ([[OntologySummit2012] Theme and Goal])

Archives:


 * Abstract
 * Agenda
 * Prepared material can be accessed by clicking on each of the title links below:
 * [ 0-Chair ] . [ 1-Communique-draft ] . [ 2-Track-1&2-synthesis ] . [ 3-Track-3-synthesis ] . [ 4-Track-4-synthesis ] . [ 5-X-Track-A1-synthesis ] . [ 6-X-Track-A2-synthesis ] . [ 7-Reference-List ]
 * Audio recording of the session [ 1:48:00 ; mp3 ; 12.36 MB ]
 * transcript of the online chat during the session ... (raw transcript is now available; edited version coming!)
 * Additional Resources

Conference Call Details

 * Date: Thursday, 29-Mar-2012
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Attendees

 * Attended:
 * ToddSchneider
 * AliHashemi
 * AmandaVizedom
 * AnatolyLevenchuk
 * BobbinTeegarden
 * CoryCasanave
 * DavidFlater
 * DougFoxvog
 * ElizabethFlorescu
 * EnriqueWulff
 * ErnieLucier
 * GiancarloGuizzardi
 * HasanSayani
 * HensonGraves
 * JimKirby
 * JoelBender
 * KathyEllis
 * MarcelaVegetti
 * MaryBrady
 * MatthewWest
 * MichaelGruninger
 * MikeBennett
 * NicolaGuarino
 * NikolayBorgest
 * PavithraKenjige
 * PeterYim
 * RexBrooks
 * SteveRay
 * TerryLongstreth
 * TomTinsley
 * TrishWhetzel


 * Expecting:
 * (please add yourself to the list if you are a member of the Ontolog or OntologySummit community, or, rsvp to )
 * (please add yourself to the list if you are a member of the Ontolog or OntologySummit community, or, rsvp to )


 * Regrets:
 * ScottHills
 * FrankOlken (will catch up on this from the session recording)
 * LeoObrst
 * RamSriram
 * LinePouchard

Abstract
Session Topic: Organizing the 'Big' Communique

This is our 7th Ontology Summit, a joint initiative by NIST, Ontolog, NCOR, NCBO, IAOA & NCO_NITRD with the support of our co-sponsors. The theme adopted for this Ontology Summit is: "Ontology for Big Systems." The event today is our 12th virtual session.

The principal goal of the summit is to bring together and foster collaboration between the ontology community, systems community, and stakeholders of some of "big systems." Together, the summit participants will exchange ideas on how ontological analysis and ontology engineering might make a difference, when applied in these "big systems." We will aim towards producing a series of recommendations describing how ontologies can create an impact; as well as providing illustrations where these techniques have been, or could be, applied in domains such as bioinformatics, electronic health records, intelligence, the smart electrical grid, manufacturing and supply chains, earth and environmental, e-science, cyberphysical systems and e-government.

As is traditional with the Ontology Summit series, the collective results of this extended discourse will be captured in the form of a communiqué, with expanded supporting material provided on the web. Towards that end, our communique lead editors will conduct this session, where we will, as a community, review how we would want to frame the message we would want to deliver in the communique, review the input from each of the tracks, as synthesized from the focused discourse over the last couple of months or so. Our target is to get to an 'almost final' communique draft available for community review/comment between April-4 and April-8, which will then allow us to have a final draft before the OntologySummit2012_Symposium on Thursday 12-April-2012, where the communique will be finally reviewed and adopted.

The goal of the meeting is to come up with an initial draft, albeit possible very coarse, of the summit's communique. Due to the time constraint, discussions will need to be focused and succinct.

More details about this Summit at: OntologySummit2012 (home page for the summit)

Agenda
Ontology Summit 2012 - Panel Session-12


 * Session Format: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call


 * 0. Opening (co-chairs) - ToddSchneider / AliHashemi ... [ slides/material ]
 * 1. Framing the theme
 * 2. Revise / Augment the draft outline
 * 3. Review track contributions - Track Champions
 * 4. Mapping / Melding contributions to outline (All) -  -- please refer to process above
 * 5. Status review / Follow-up actions - (co-chairs)
 * 6. Brief review of "Reference List" and other deliverables
 * 7. Announcements / Wrap Up - (co-chairs)

Proceedings:
Please refer to the above

IM Chat Transcript captured during the session:

see raw transcript here.

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.) Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.

-- begin in-session chat-transcript --

PeterYim: Welcome to the

= OntologySummit2012: Session-12 - Thu 2012-03-29 =

Summit Theme: OntologySummit2012: "Ontology for Big Systems"

Session Topic: Organizing the 'Big' Communique

OntologySummit2012_Communique co-Lead Editors & Session co-Chairs: ToddSchneider & AliHashemi

Panelists - Track Champions and Co-editors of the Communique:
 * Track-1&2: Ontology for Big Systems and Systems Engineering - MatthewWest & HensonGraves
 * Track-3: Challenge: Ontology and Big Data - ErnieLucier & MaryBrady
 * Track-4: Large-Scale Domain Applications - SteveRay & TrishWhetzel
 * Cross-Track-A1: Ontology Quality and Large-Scale Systems - AmandaVizedom & MikeBennett
 * Cross-Track-A2: Ontology for Federation and Integration of Systems - CoryCasanave & AnatolyLevenchuk
 * OntologySummit2012_Symposium Co-chairs: RamSriram and MichaelGruninger
 * OntologySummit2012 General Co-chairs: LeoObrst and NicolaGuarino

Session page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2012_03_29

Mute control: *7 to un-mute ... *6 to mute

Can't find Skype Dial pad? ... it's under the "Call" dropdown menu as "Show Dial pad"

Proceedings:
anonymous morphed into ElizabethFlorescu

anonymous morphed into ErnieLucier

ToddSchneider: Good afternoon/morning everyone.

ToddSchneider: Will be with you shortly.

anonymous morphed into TomTinsley

MikeBennett: I have to jump off just before 2 Eastern / 11 Pacific.

anonymous morphed into DougFoxvog

MatthewWest: I've had my head down in our own track, so do not have a broad view of this summit.

MikeBennett: One possible theme is the different applications of ontologies, as a technical artifact in its own right, and as a means to capture common semantics across some large engineering system. I don't know if that fits with what you are looking for here though.

AliHashemi: SteveRay points out that many systems: software, enterprises are based around "Model Driven Systems"

MatthewWest: Model driven is closely associated with semantics of course.

NicolaGuarino: Modelling is much more general than ontological modelling

MikeBennett: @Nicola agreed. And ontology has broader applications than model driven engineering (indeed, the latter has been a minority case in the Semantic Web world but has been shown to be important in the big systems context)

NicolaGuarino: @Mike agreed

TerryLongstreth: Lemma: Ontological methods can be applied to engineering models to improve depth and breadth of modeling semantics

NicolaGuarino: @Terry: I agree very much. Ontological analysis and actual engineered ontologies just complement (in a very useful way) model driven engineering (for instance model driven engineering based on systems of differential equations)

BobbinTeegarden: @Steve Are you implying, perhaps, that the (ontology)Model IS the System (as in Model Driven Architecture (MDA))?

SteveRay: @Bobbin: Yes I am.

HensonGraves: agree that we are in a model driven age. Also our modeling language are not as good as we need. Ontology is the value proposition to make the models work.

TerryLongstreth: @Henson: +1

SteveRay: I suppose my point is that ontological modeling is a better, more rigorous way of modeling in general.

MatthewWest: Engineering models are more often mathematical than logical, but there are none the less ontological elements.

MatthewWest: @Steve: does that mean you propose replacing mathematics with logic?

SteveRay: @Matthew: Not really. Logic is just a part of mathematics, right? Where it makes sense, use logic. Where a differential equation makes sense, by all means use that.

MatthewWest: @Steve: Yes, but most people see ontology as being limited to expression in logic, and not to include broader mathematical models.

SteveRay: @Matthew: Fair enough. For inherently numerical problems, I would agree that mathematics as traditionally understood is best (such as a control system for example). But for symbolic problems, ontology models are best.

SteveRay: @Matthew: So, both are models, and in fact I would submit that an ontological model provides the contextual framework in which a mathematical model operates.

MatthewWest: @Steve: Agreed.

JimKirby: Where are the slides?

MikeBennett: @Jim on the hopper (vnc server) http://vnc2.cim3.net:5800/

ErnieLucier: @Jim if you do not have access to hopper (the vnc server) then http://ontolog.cim3.net/file/work/OntologySummit2012/OntologySummit2012_Communique/2012-03-29_draft-review/OntologySummit2012_communique-drafting-I--ToddSchneider-AliHashemi_20120329.pdf

JimKirby: @Ernie Thanks!

AnatolyLevenchuk: We may at least tell that ontology is about meta-modeling part of modeling. There are many levels of meta-models and models, therefore we have difficulties in differentiating ontologizing and modeling (and programming too). Model transformations, compilation and mapping is about the same activity.

anonymous morphed into MaryBrady

RexBrooks: While I haven't come to any overarching conclusion, I am now using UML Modeling in Enterprise Architect and Owl Ontology / Ontologies in Protege, and they are quite useful when working back and forth from one to the other for specific classes, terms, systems-programs, etc. Of course having a coordinated set of ontologies and models as the end products is very handy as resources and references for getting specific kinds of information about these things as needed.

RexBrooks: I haven't gotten to the point where using these with inferencing engines or open data sources with SPARQL but I expect that to become even more useful.

MikeBennett: @Rex have you considered using the Ontology Definition Metamodel (ODM) so as to have your ontologies and logical UML models in the same tool? Mail me off list if you need to know details.

BobbinTeegarden: @Rex Enterprise Architect is just coming out with an OWL Plugin, very formative stage; and Elisa Kendall's VOM Plugin is more mature (and does follow ODM, ref by Bennett).

BobbinTeegarden: @Rex VOM Plugin is in MagicDraw, just fyi.

MikeBennett: @Bobbin agreed. Also lets one generate OWL for use in Protege tools.

RexBrooks: @Bobbin-Mary-Matthew: Thanks very much. Wish I could afford MagicDraw , but I'm glad to hear that there is a plugin on the way for EA. However, I will probably continue to use them as springboards back and forth, creating a kind of synergy I haven't had before.

RexBrooks: @Mike: I had your email on another machine that failed recently. I would like to contact you about the ODM. I was aware of it, but not this capability. My email is rexb[at]starbourne.com

AliHashemi: ErnieLucier suggests that the distinction between Current Problems and Uses is unclear.

AliHashemi: NicolaGuarino suggests that section headings should convey more meaning.

ErnieLucier: I have to leave now.

MaryBrady: @Ernie: I can stay for just a bit longer...about 1:15

anonymous morphed into GiancarloGuizzardi

AliHashemi: google-doc of the developing communique draft is at: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OG_iNRROkfh2T76Ri0SrNzwLwVKGKo4kQOWwBKxHjy8/edit

AliHashemi: Please note - anyone with this link can edit the document (while we are in-session now)

PeterYim: @Henson, @Matthew - the figures are now in - see: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2012_BigSystemsEngineering_Synthesis

TrishWhetzel: Regrets, I need to leave the call now.

NicolaGuarino: Ontological analysis as enabler of good modeling. I endorse this very much. Very crisp statement.

NicolaGuarino: (who said that?) ... [it was HensonGraves and MatthewWest citing that as being among the track-1&2 key conclusions; the statement was reiterated by session co-chair ToddSchneider just now.]

GiancarloGuizzardi: @Nicola: Fully agree.

SteveRay: +1 on Nicola's statement

CoryCasanave: We should not differentiate modeling and ontological analysis, ontological analysis should be positioned as part of modeling and one that is emerging as best practice. The precise modeling encompassing ontological analysis is a key enabler to the model driven approach Steve identified.

MaryBrady: Regrets...I too have to leave.

PeterYim: I just want to emphasize that some statements (or recommendations) made (say, by panelists or even in the syntheses) are context sensitive. If we don't have the luxury (say, limited by document length constraints) in the synthesis write-ups and/or the communique to provide those context, we should avoid citing them out of context.

MikeBennett: Cross Track X1 (Ontology Quality), the Google Doc seems to incorporate our community input page and not our track champions' synthesis page.

HensonGraves: @amanda, there are well developed methods for validating models, e.g., but test. Presumably these methods could be used to test ontologies. also you could build on Nicola's notion of ontology correctness

AmandaVizedom: @henson, yes, and there are even techniques for unit testing, and various researchers have been developing more quantitative measures of other ontology characteristics that may or may not be applicable to particular cases... and there are many techniques for in-use testing and domain expert validation that are not well documented. That's one step; finding more ways to streamline and/or automate is another.

DougFoxvog: @Amanda: Could you provide a link to methods/tools for validating ontology quality that you were referring to? Are you referring to tools such as OntoClean?

AliHashemi: @Doug - this probably isn't the same as what Amanda suggests, but this is also relevant: http://arxiv.org/abs/1202.3602

AmandaVizedom: @Doug, I was mostly talking about the need to document approaches to evaluation, so naturally I cannot provide links. But the reference library has a good start for discovery of some of what is documented.

BobbinTeegarden: Something about quality and requirements sometimes missed: if the goal is to tune the current system, quality/requirements are important; but if the goal is to use modeling to do possibility' thinking, integrate newness, or get out of the box and design a future system or enhancement, it's more a creative sketching activity and 'quality' is more of an inhibitor, requirements are highly conceptual... Is this worth saying?

AmandaVizedom: @Bobbin- Conceptual requirements are still requirements! But more generally, I'd say that this is part of the way that requirements vary with usage. And as a reminder, by "quality" here we are limiting ourselves to the engineering sense: the quality of something is the degree to which it meets requirements. So, if some characteristic (computational properties, reusability, consistency with X,....) isn't a requirement of the usage, it shouldn't be part of the quality measurement for this usage. What we need is better, explicit, and well-grounded understanding of what requirements go with what usages!

CoryCasanave: don't know why my call dropped!

HensonGraves: [ref. Anatoly's point about "metamodelling = ontologizing"] @anatoly, I agree with you

MikeBennett: Nicola is making a very important point here: metamodels and ontologies are not in any way the same thing.

SteveRay: Agree with Nicola. Metamodelling would refer to M2. Modeling would be M1.

HensonGraves: @steve, an auto is M0, the model is M1, and the metamodel for autos can be at M2

SteveRay: @Henson: Agreed

SteveRay: [ref. Anatoly's remark that Nicola's rejection of "metamodels=ontologies" is possibly related to "presentation versus representation"] Nicola is not talking about presentation versus representation.

HensonGraves: @nicola, the conceptualizations and patterns can be represented within metamodel. the model of a system is an instance of the metamodel of a system as a pattern

MatthewWest: Ontology is useful at each (meta) level, and in distinguishing between the levels.

NicolaGuarino: At every modeling level there is a corresponding (often implicit) ontology. Ontology does not just belong to the meta level

AliHashemi: +1 to Nicola's point

SteveRay: @Nicola: Also agreed. I don't think ontology is better suited for one metal level or another. It is orthogonal to the metal level. It's just a better way to model.

CoryCasanave: @Steve +1 - semantic modeling at all levels!!

MatthewWest: @Ali and Todd: [ref. Todd suggesting to do some real time cut-and-paste into the developing communique draft] Please do not do that. We have provided input that was roughly in the order of the outline, just take it offline.

PeterYim: +1 on what MatthewWest is suggesting - that the lead editors should just make the calls and come up with a first draft based on what the champions have turned in

MatthewWest: It looks like you already have our stuff in there.

PeterYim: +1 on Steve's remark about clarifying "Current State" as being "Current state of the practice" vs. "state of the art"

SteveRay: Absolutely agree with what Henson is saying

PeterYim: @Henson - well said - can you document that on the chat, please

AliHashemi: [documenting what Henson just said ...] Shift towards explicit semantics ... from informal modeling to modeling in formal languages ... to underpin modeling languages w/ explicit semantics ... to understand the underlying ontology of the elements of the languages

SteveRay: Eh?

AliHashemi: ?

SteveRay: Well defined semantics without knowing what the context is?

NicolaGuarino: ... and there is also a shift from just using *ontologies* (as useful engineering artefacts) toward using *ontological analysis* (as a methodology which helps understanding and disentangling the complexity of big systems)

MatthewWest: @Nicola: +1

GiancarloGuizzardi: @HensonGraves: Yes. I agree with that point. Formal characterization should reflect ontological distinctions. Formal semantics cannot guarantee quality per se. Logics (or any piece of mathematics for that matter) does not care what we do with it and, thus, cannot itself fully constrain the possible interpretations of a model (and a metamodel) to the intended ones

GiancarloGuizzardi: @Nicola: Fully agree with that.

AnatolyLevenchuk: @Nicola not ontological analysis but ontology engineering (like requirement engineering and systems architecture engineering along with requirement analyses etc. as small part of engineering thing)

MikeBennett: Apologies, I have to drop off now.

PeterYim: "inferencing" helps make sense of "big data"

PeterYim: ontological engineering helps augment humans in dealing with "big data" by off-loading a lot of the work to machines

MatthewWest: @Peter: Yes, seeing how ontology can help to automate mundane but necessary activity.

TerryLongstreth: Ontological analysis requires a canonical methodology, which may equate to ontological engineering, but I think should be broader

AnatolyLevenchuk: @peter better ontology engineering (not ontological). We then have ontology as explicit engineering artifact with life cycle, practices (like analysis, management etc.).

NicolaGuarino: Thank for you efforts, Todd & Ali!

anonymous morphed into NikolayBorgest

AliHashemi: re. "Reference List" see - https://www.zotero.org/groups/ontologysummit2012/items/collectionKey/I4QX3RT7

AmandaVizedom: re. "Reference List" content page on the wiki is at - http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2012_RecommendedReading

CoryCasanave: How wide or narrow do we consider "inferencing", production of derivative information from models is done a lot, inference is more identified with FOL

PeterYim: @Cory - not necessarily, even simple inferences (say, applying modus ponens) can prove to be useful

CoryCasanave: @Peter - I agree but that may not be the interpretation of readers

PeterYim: @Cory - guess we (the lead editors) will just have to word it properly to make sure that we are looking at a spectrum of possibilities

CoryCasanave: @Peter - good, but not easy!

GiancarloGuizzardi: Folks. I have to drop off now. thanks for all the effort. bye

PeterYim: Bye, Giancarlo ... thanks for joining us today!

NicolaGuarino: I have to go as well. Bye bye folks, good session!

PeterYim: great session ... lots discussed and done!

PeterYim: Ali says: we will be publishing a draft of the communique the day before our session next Thursday

PeterYim: -- session ended: 11:23am PDT --

-- end of in-session chat-transcript --


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 * Conference Date and Time:	29-Mar-2012 9:34am~11:23am PDT
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Additional Resources:

 * Homepage of OntologySummit2012
 * OntologySummit2012 Launch Event - ConferenceCall_2012_01_12
 * OntologySummit2012 session-02 "Ontology for Big Systems: What's In Scope" - ConferenceCall_2012_01_19
 * OntologySummit2012 session-03 "Ontology for Big Systems & Systems Engineering - I : The Systems and Systems Engineering Problem Space" - ConferenceCall_2012_01_26
 * OntologySummit2012 session-04 - "Ontology for Big Systems & Systems Engineering - II : a response to the problem space and setting out the working program for this Summit Track" - ConferenceCall_2012_02_02
 * OntologySummit2012 session-05 - "Meeting Big Data Challenges through Ontology - I" - ConferenceCall_2012_02_09
 * OntologySummit2012 session-06 - "Large-Scale Domain Applications  I" - ConferenceCall_2012_02_16
 * OntologySummit2012 session-07 - "Implementing Ontology Quality Measures in Big Systems Engineering" - ConferenceCall_2012_02_23
 * OntologySummit2012 session-08 - "Ontology for Federation and Integration of Systems" - ConferenceCall_2012_03_01
 * OntologySummit2012 session-09 - "Large-Scale Domain Applications  II" - ConferenceCall_2012_03_08
 * OntologySummit2012 session-10 - "Big Data Developing Challenges" - ConferenceCall_2012_03_15
 * OntologySummit2012 session-11 - "Big Systems: The ontology of System Components, and System Modelling Language Requirements" - ConferenceCall_2012_03_22
 * Wiki pages devoted to the focused discourse by Tracks:
 * Track-1&2: Ontology for Big Systems and Systems Engineering
 * OntologySummit2012_BigSystemsEngineering_CommunityInput (open)
 * OntologySummit2012_BigSystemsEngineering_Synthesis (maintained by MatthewWest, HensonGraves)
 * Track-3: Challenge: Ontology and Big Data
 * OntologySummit2012_BigDataChallenge_CommunityInput (open)
 * OntologySummit2012_BigDataChallenge_Synthesis (maintained by ErnieLucier, MaryBrady)
 * Track-4: Large-scale Domain Applications
 * OntologySummit2012_Applications_CommunityInput (open)
 * OntologySummit2012_Applications_Synthesis (maintained by SteveRay, TrishWhetzel)
 * Cross-Track-A1: Ontology Quality and Large-Scale Systems
 * OntologySummit2012_Quality_CommunityInput (open)
 * OntologySummit2012_Quality_Synthesis (maintained by AmandaVizedom, MikeBennett)
 * Cross-Track-A2: Ontology for Federation and Integration of Systems
 * OntologySummit2012_SystemsFederationIntegration_CommunityInput (open)
 * OntologySummit2012_SystemsFederationIntegration_Synthesis (maintained by CoryCasanave, AnatolyLevenchuk)
 * Summit Communique:
 * OntologySummit2012 Communique Draft - on [ google-doc]
 * OntologySummit2012_Communique/Draft (maintained by the communique co-editors)
 * OntologySummit2012_Communique (maintained by the co-lead editors)
 * List of References - OntologySummit2012_RecommendedReading (maintained by AmandaVizedom)
 * [ontology-summit] mailing list archives - http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/ontology-summit/
 * to subscribe to this discussion list: send a blank message from your subscribing email address to  or visit http://ontolog.cim3.net/mailman/listinfo/ontology-summit/ and subscribe yourself there
 * Homepage of the Summit series - see: OntologySummit

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How To Join (while the session is in progress)

 * 1. Call in from a phone or from skype: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2012_03_29#nid389H
 * 2. Open chat in a new browser window: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/summit_20120329
 * 3. Download prepared material for each segment: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2012_03_29#nid3897
 * or, 3.1 (access our shared-screen vnc server, if you are not behind a corporate firewall)