ConferenceCall 2010 09 10

= Joint SIO-OOR-Ontolog Panel Discussion: "CL Support for OOR" - Fri 10-Sep-2010 =


 * Topic: "Common Logic (CL) Support for OOR"


 * Chair: Dr. JohnSowa ( VivoMind Intelligence) - [ slides ]


 * Panelists:
 * Professor JohnBateman and Dr. habil. TillMossakowski (Bremen U) - "Adding Common Logic Support to the Heterogeneous Toolset (status report)" - [ slides ] . [ demo-video-clip ]
 * Professor MichaelGruninger (U of Toronto) - "Objectives of the Common Logic Ontology Repository Project" - [ slides ]
 * Mr. CameronRoss (Kojeware) - "An OOR Implementation for COLORE" - [ slides ]
 * Mr. AdamPease (Articulate Software) - "Sigma as an OOR" - [ slides ]
 * Dr. PatHayes - some comments on work presented at this session


 * Archive:
 * Agenda & Proceedings
 * Abstracts
 * Prepared presentation material can be accessed by clicking on each of the title links below:
 * [ 0-Chair ] . [ 1-Bateman-Mossakowski . (demo-video-clip) ].[ 2-Gruninger ] . [ 3-Ross ] . [ 4-Pease ]
 * [ audio recording of the session ] [ 1:49:59 ; mp3 ; 12.6MB ]
 * [ Transcript of the online chat session ] during the panel discussion
 * Other Resources

Conference Call Details:

 * Date: Friday, 10-September-2010
 * Start Time: 12:00pm EDT / 9:00am PDT / 6:00pm CEST / 5:00pm BST / 16:00 UTC
 * ref: World Clock
 * Expected Call Duration: ~2.0 hours
 * Dial-in Number:
 * from a US telephone (US): +1-218-844-8060 (domestic long distance cost will apply)
 * When calling in from a phone, use Conference ID: "4389979#"
 * from Europe, call:
 * Austria 0820-4000-1577
 * Belgium 070-35-9992
 * France 0826-100-280
 * Germany 01805-00-7642
 * Ireland 0818-270-037
 * Italy 848-390-179
 * Spain 0902-886-056
 * Switzerland 0848-560-327
 * UK 0844-581-9148
 * callers from other countries please dial into either one of the US or European numbers


 * Shared-screen support (VNC session) will be started 5 minutes before the call at: http://vnc2.cim3.net:5800/
 * view-only password: "ontolog"
 * if you plan to be logging into this shared-screen option (which the speaker may be navigating), and you are not familiar with the process, please try to call in 5 minutes before the start of the session so that we can work out the connection logistics. Help on this will generally not be available once the presentation starts.
 * people behind corporate firewalls may have difficulty accessing this. If that is the case, please download the slides above and running them locally. The speaker(s) will prompt you to advance the slides during the talk.


 * Discussions and Q & A:
 * (Unless the conference host has already muted everyone) Please mute your phone, by pressing "*2" on your phone keypad, when a presentation is in progress. To un-mute, press "*3"
 * You can type in your questions or comments through the browser based  chat session by:
 * pointing a separate browser tab (or window) to http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room and enter: Room="ontolog_20100910" and My Name="Your Own Name" (e.g. "JaneDoe")
 * or point your browser to: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/ontolog_20100910
 * instructions: once you got access to the page, click on the "settings" button, and identify yourself (by modifying the Name field). You can indicate that you want to ask a question verbally by clicking on the "hand" button, and wait for the moderator to call on you; or, type and send your question into the chat window at the bottom of the screen.
 * (when everyone is muted) If you want to speak or have questions or remarks to make, 'please "raise your hand (virtually)" by click on the "hand button" (lower right) on the chat session page. You may speak when acknowledged by the speaker or the session moderator (again, press "*3" on your phone to unmute). Test your voice and introduce yourself first before proceeding with your remarks, please.'' (Please remember to click on the "hand button" again (to lower your hand) and press "*2" on your phone to mute yourself after you are done speaking.)
 * thanks to the soaphub.org folks, one can now use a jabber/xmpp client (e.g. gtalk) to join this chatroom. Just add the room as a buddy - (in our case here) ontolog_20100910@soaphub.org ... Handy for mobile devices!


 * Please review our Virtual Session Tips and Ground Rules - see: VirtualSpeakerSessionTips


 * RSVP to [mailto:peter.yim@cim3.com peter.yim@cim3.com] appreciated.


 * This session, like all other Ontolog events, is open to the public. Information relating to this session is shared on this wiki page: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2010_09_10


 * Please note that this session will be recorded, and the audio archive is expected to be made available as open content to our community membership and the public at-large under our prevailing open IPR policy.

Attendees:

 * Attended:
 * JohnSowa (chair)
 * JohnBateman
 * TillMossakowski
 * MichaelGruninger
 * CameronRoss
 * AdamPease
 * PeterYim
 * PatCassidy
 * MattHettinger
 * KenBaclawski
 * TerryLongstreth
 * DougFoxvog
 * RickMurphy
 * TomRuss
 * BartGajderowicz
 * AliHashemi
 * PavithraKenjige
 * ElizabethFlorescu
 * ToddSchneider
 * CecilLynch
 * ImmanuelNormann
 * BobbinTeegarden
 * PatHayes
 * YuriyMilov
 * MikeDean


 * Expecting:
 * ArturoSanchez
 * BernardUlozas
 * JeffAbbott
 * ChuckTurnitsa
 * MichaelRiben
 * ... if you are coming to the session, please add your name above (plus your affiliation, if you aren't already a member of the community) above; or e-mail  so that we can reserve enough resources to support everyone's participation. ...
 * ... if you are coming to the session, please add your name above (plus your affiliation, if you aren't already a member of the community) above; or e-mail  so that we can reserve enough resources to support everyone's participation. ...


 * Regrets:
 * NancyWiegand

Resources

 * OpenOntologyRepository - Homepage for the OOR initiative
 * A recent presentation on OOR - OOR Presentation at SemTech2010
 * The OOR-sandbox v2.5 (powered by the NCBO BioPortal Core v2.5) instance, now online at: http://oor-01.cim3.net ref.
 * OOR Project site and code repository at SemWebCentral - http://oor.semwebcentral.org
 * 2009_07_30 - Thursday: Joint Ontolog-OOR Panel Discussion: "BioPortal and related Ontology Repository Implementations and Development" (Take-3) - Chair: NatashaNoy - Panelists: CarlosRueda, PaulAlexander, JohnGraybeal, MikeDean, StephenGranite, AlexGarcia, KenBaclawski - ConferenceCall_2009_07_30
 * 2009_02_19 - Thursday: Joint Ontolog-OOR Panel Discussion: "Getting OOR Development Off the Ground (Take-2): the work begins" - Chair: ToddSchneider; Panelists: MarkMusen, NatashaNoy, MikeDean, PaulBuitelaar / AndreasHarth, MathieuDaquin, KenBaclawski, MichaelGruninger - ConferenceCall_2009_02_19
 * 2008_08_22 - Friday: OOR Panel Discussion: "Getting OOR Development Off the Ground: Identifying Synergies &amp; Gaps" (Take-1) - Chair: LeoObrst; Panelists: MikeDean, MarkMusen, LiDing, BruceBargmeyer &amp; BillAndersen - ConferenceCall_2008_08_22
 * 2008_04_29 - Our team made a presentation with our history, status, OOR rationale and requirements, and a proposed roadmap at the OntologySummit2008 - see: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?OntologySummit2008/FaceToFaceAgenda#nid1BLS
 * OntologySummit2008_Communique
 * our last regular OOR-team meeting - OOR/ConferenceCall_2010_08_20
 * [ oor-forum ] message archive - http://ontolog.cim3.net/forum/oor-forum/
 * (if you are not yet subscribed) you may subscribe yourself to the [ oor-forum ] listserv, by sending a blank email to  from your subscribing email address, and then follow the instructions you receive back from the mailing list system.
 * check out our other mailing lists and join us

Agenda & Proceedings:
Session: "Common Logic (CL) Support for OOR" Panel Discussion


 * Session Format & Agenda: this is a virtual session conducted over an augmented conference call:
 * 1. Opening - chair ... [ slides ]  (10 min.)
 * 2. Panelists presentations - JohnBateman, Till Mossakowski, MichaelGruninger, CameronRoss, AdamPease (15 min. each)
 * 3. Comment from the Panel - PatHayes & other panelists
 * 4. Q & A and open discussion - All (30 min.) ... please refer to process above
 * 5. Conclusion / Follow-up - chair

Abstracts:

 * Session Topic: "Common Logic (CL) Support for OOR"
 * by JohnSowa


 * Abstract: ... this session will be devoted to exploring the various alternatives available to provide Common Logic (ISO/IEC 24707) support for the Open Ontology Repository (OOR) initiative.

Panel Member Talks:

 * Title: Adding Common Logic Support to the Heterogeneous Toolset (status report) - [ slides ] . [ demo-video-clip ]
 * by TillMossakowski & JohnBateman


 * Abstract: ... The Heterogeneous Tool Set (Hets) is a multi-logic parsing, analysis

and proof tool. The logics covered by Hets include propositional logic (with SAT solvers minisat and zChaff), OWL (with provers Pellet and FACT++), first-order logic (with provers SPASS, Vampire, Darwin and MathServe), and higher-order logic (with prover Isabelle). Recently, we have added Common Logic to Hets, offering both parsing and proof tools for Common Logic. SPASS, Vampire, Darwin and MathServe are available for proofs in Common Logic, as well as Isabelle (if induction on lists is needed). Moreover, a translation from OWL into Common Logic is provided. Last but not least, the language HetCASL provides heterogeneous structuring and refinement, making it possible e.g. to verify that the OWL version of an ontology is indeed implied by its Common Logic version, or verify logical relations between different ontologies. We propose functionalities of this kind as highly desirable for next generation ontology management and repository building.


 * Title: Objectives of the Common Logic Ontology Repository Project - [ slides ]
 * by MichaelGruninger


 * Abstract: I will give an overview of the objectives for the COLORE project,

covering ontological engineering, issues specific to Common Logic, and issues related to software functionality.


 * ref. http://stl.mie.utoronto.ca/colore/ontologies.html


 * Title: An OOR Implementation for COLORE - [ slides ]
 * by CameronRoss


 * Abstract: ... This talk will outline efforts by Kojeware Corporation and the Semantic Technologies Laboratory at the University of Toronto to develop an open system for hosting a repository of Common Logic content from Goolge's cloud computing infrastructure.  The requirements of this system will be summarized and a high-level description of the system will be presented.  The Resource-Oriented Architecture we have designed to expose CL content using RESTful services will also be presented.  Challenges with naming CL resources using globally unique and location-independent identifiers (i.e. URNs) will be discussed, and disparities between our requirements and capabilities of the current BioPortal system will be summarized.


 * ref. Announcement - Open Source release of Samian Platform: http://code.google.com/a/eclipselabs.org/p/samian-platform/


 * Title: Sigma as an OOR - [ slides ]
 * by AdamPease


 * Abstract: ... This brief talk will outline the capabilities of the open source (under GNU GPL/LGPL) Sigma Knowledge Engineering Environment http://sigmakee.sourceforge.net.  Sigma has been released and developed on SourceForge starting in 2004.  This talk will discuss its existing tool set including browsing, analysis and inference.  Sigma supports SUO-KIF, with import/export capabilities for OWL, and TPTP formats.  Its embedded inference system supports full first order logic with equality. An experimental higher order inference system is also included.  While developed for the Suggested Upper Merged Ontology, Sigma can support any theory or set of theories of equivalent or lesser expressiveness.  The SUO-KIF appears to be a concrete syntax of CL, and little effort would be required to allow CLIF display/import/export within Sigma.


 * ref. http://www.ontologyportal.org/ & http://sigma3.cim3.net:4010/sigma/Browse.jsp?kb=SUMO&lang=en

Transcript of the online chat during the session:
see raw transcript here.

(for better clarity, the version below is a re-organized and lightly edited chat-transcript.) Participants are welcome to make light edits to their own contributions as they see fit.

-- begin of chat session --

PeterYim:.

Welcome to the Joint SIO-OOR-Ontolog Panel Discussion - Fri 10-Sep-2010


 * Topic: "Common Logic (CL) Support for OOR"


 * Chair: Dr. JohnSowa (VivoMind Intelligence)

o Professor JohnBateman and Dr. habil. TillMossakowski (Bremen U) - "Adding Common Logic Support to the Heterogeneous Toolset (status report)" o Professor MichaelGruninger (U of Toronto) - "Objectives of the Common Logic Ontology Repository Project" o Mr. CameronRoss (Kojeware) - "An OOR Implementation for COLORE" o Mr. AdamPease (Articulate Software) - "Sigma as an OOR" o Dr. PatHayes - some comments on work presented at this session
 * Panelists:

please refer to dial-in and other details (incl. slide download links) on the session page at: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2010_09_10

.

Please change your name from 'anonymous' using the Settings button (top center)

anonymous morphed into vnc2

anonymous morphed into TomRuss

anonymous morphed into JohnBateman

anonymous morphed into MattHettinger

DougFoxvog: put the video link on the chat page

JohnBateman: The Hets demo video is at: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~till/hets-cl.avi

anonymous morphed into ElizabethFlorescu

PeterYim: = JohnSowa presenting (started 9:13am PDT) ...

DougFoxvog: Can the Prolog cut operator be easily handled by First-Order logic?

AliHashemi: i think it should be on slide in the vnc

AliHashemi: slide 5*

DougFoxvog: The slide should be advance to slide 5 as Ali said

DougFoxvog: Slide 7 now!

TillMossakowski: A smaller version (3.5GB) of the Hets demo video is at: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~till/hets-cl-small.avi

AliHashemi: (the link to JohnB's pdf version is not working)

AliHashemi: try VLC http://www.videolan.org/ ?

AliHashemi: otherwise you might need to update some codecs

DougFoxvog: I can play it with the VLC media player.

RickMurphy: For folks who are interested. Hets is easy to install and config. Need to lean a little Haskell, understand the background and you're good to go.

TillMossakowski: However, you can install and run Hets without any Haskell knowledge. Haskell knowledge is only needed if you want to develop Hets.

TomRuss: Quicktime on Mac is unable to play the movie.

CameronRoss: I'm uploading the small video to youtube... it should be available shortly

RickMurphy: Till's right. I was just think about those who want to get their hands dirty. Also great support by Christian Maeder !

CameronRoss: try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33zsD48pKP4 and set your player to 480p

PeterYim: thanks, Cameron ... this would work (probably for most of us)

CameronRoss: Just click the link above and it will start in your browser

anonymous2 morphed into PavithraKenjige

CameronRoss: @Peter - ctrl L will put Adobe Reader into fullscreen

PeterYim: the youtube link is now posted to the session page too

PeterYim: @Cameron - I am aware of that, but when the slide decks don't show a slide number, I'll need to stay on the smaller window to know what slide number we are on

CameronRoss: @Peter - makes sense

PeterYim: = MichaelGruninger presenting (start 9:59am PDT) ...

ToddSchneider: Thank you to all presenters. Have to go.

PeterYim: bye, Todd

PeterYim: = CameronRoss presenting (started 10:09am PDT) ...

anonymous2 morphed into PatHayes

PatHayes: hi all, PatHayes just got online.

PeterYim: Hi Pat ... glad you made it!

PatHayes: hi peter. which slides are we in?

PeterYim: please morph into your real name (use "Settings" button at top center of window)

PeterYim: CameronRoss's slide#4

JohnBateman: The high resolution version of the HETS/CL demo video is now also on youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srTTYQL3G6c

PeterYim: Thanks John & Till ... links on session pages updated - ref http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2010_09_10#nid2GTM

AdamPease: phone battery died dialing back in

JohnBateman: There seems to be a terminological confusion between "Common Logic" as the CL that appears in CLIF files, and "Common Logic" in the broader sense. Otherwise it does not really make sense to talk of a "CL dedicated reasoner": what is necessary surely is the connection between many different reasoners as appropriate for the expressivity of the particular sublogics that CL may define (as argued for by JohnSowa just now): i.e., what Hets does.

PatHayes: johnB: yes, people often say CL when they really mean CLIF. However, there is what one might call a natural bias in CL to cover the whole free cl syntax, which goes beyond KIF in significant ways.

anonymous6 morphed into BartGajderowicz

anonymous6 morphed into TillMossakowski

CameronRoss: @Adam - One issue I've found with translating SuoKif to CL is that SuoKif allows terms to be sentences. However, over the thousands of sentences contained within SUMO, there are only 57 sentences that use this construct.

TillMossakowski: We have developed a technique for proving consistency of ontologies by amalgamating small models, conservative extensions, and refinements. We have applied this to DOLCE, which is not as huge as SUMO, but larger then anything model finders can handle.

PeterYim: I was disconnected from this chat-session (the soaphub.org server may have been down) just now ... and have lost the chat-transcript prior to now ... if anyone still has that, kindly say so (and send me a copy for the archives, please

BartGajderowicz: @PeterYim: I have it, will archive and forward to you, Peter

PeterYim: thanks, Bart!

JohnBateman: Note to Adam on CVS: actually there are many reasons to go beyond basic text CVS. We are currently exploring the use of the XML-aware versioning system TnTBase (probably to be talked about next week) and interfacing this with BioPortal. There is also work ongoing on semantic object versioning, which is where we will want to be for ontology engineering I expect. TnTBase is, however, built *on top* of standand versioning tools, so I would agree with Adam that there should be no duplication of effort or repeating work that already exists, just because we are looking at ontologies.

anonymous2 morphed into RickMurphy

anonymous9 morphed into MichaelGruninger

anonymous morphed into ImmanuelNormann

JohnBateman: For alignment and translation between ontologies, we have moved on somewhat: I'd refer you to the work from TillMossakowski, Oliver Kutz, Immanuel Normann on 'shapes of alignment'. This makes much of the discussion about fixing particular vocabularies redundant.

DougFoxvog: The 90% ^ 5 => 6% argument only holds if each step is independent of the previous ones. However, if one is looking at logic chains, the separate steps are likely to be in the same context. Thus if the 90% covers the first step, the likelihood that terms in following rules also correspond should be far higher than 90%.

anonymous morphed into JohnSowa

AdamPease: I'm tempted to comment on the ontology discussion, but isn't it very off topic? This call is about an OOR, not upper ontology

JohnBateman: I agree with Adam: old debates.

AliHashemi: Depending on how the modules are related to one another (Conservative vs Non Conservative) it goes a long way in addressing PatCassidy's point

CameronRoss: @AdamPease and @JohnBateman - I'm currently looking into the possibility of integrating and re-branding the Google Code hosting service for an OOR.

JohnBateman: Pat: before you go.... can we have agreement on the module semantics!!! We're waiting on this to finalise the Hets treatment of the modules.

CameronRoss: @PatHayes - I have a pile of comments regarding a revised spec! I'll start a dialog.

anonymous1: Where's the CL mailing list?

PeterYim: who is this? "anonymous1"

AliHashemi: http://philebus.tamu.edu/mailman/listinfo/cl

JohnBateman: @PatHayes: we *need* the module decision!!!

CameronRoss: @PatCassidy - in terms of translation, the Samian Platform will support arbitrarily complex transformations steps, including steps that require complex reasoning... just need to know what thot is

PavithraKenjige: @Dr.Sowa I am not in the common logic group, but I was interested in listen ingto this group Thanks! Thanks every body!

PeterYim: thanks everyone ... great session!

AliHashemi: Thanks + Bye!

CameronRoss: Bye everyone... thanks!

PeterYim: -- session ended 11:10am PDT --

TillMossakowski: good bye

JohnBateman: See y'all.

PeterYim: @Bart ... looks like I do have a copy of the chat-transcript after all (from the vnc server) ... therefore, no need to send, but really appreciate your offer to help, nonetheless!

BartGajderowicz: @PeterYim, no problem

PeterYim: Thanks again, Bart ... ttyl!

-- end of chat session --


 * Further Question & Remarks - please post them to the [ oor-forum ] listserv
 * if you are already subscribed, post to 
 * (if you are not yet subscribed) you may subscribe yourself to the [ oor-forum ] listserv, by sending a blank email to  from your subscribing email address, and then follow the instructions you receive back from the mailing list system.

Audio Recording of this Session

 * To download the audio recording of the session, click here
 * the playback of the audio files require the proper setup, and an MP3 compatible player on your computer.
 * Conference Date and Time:	10-Sep-2010 9:12am ~ 11:10am PDT
 * Duration of Recording:	1 Hour 50 Minutes
 * Recording File Size:	       12.6 MB (in mp3 format)


 * suggestion: its best that you listen to the session while having the presentation opened in front of you. You'll be prompted to advance slides by the speaker.
 * Take a look, also, at the rich body of knowledge that this community has built together, over the years, by going through the archives of noteworthy past Ontolog events. (References on how to subscribe to our podcast can also be found there.)

For the record ...

How To Join (while the session is in progress)

 * 1. Dial in with a phone: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2010_09_10#nid2GTW
 * 2. Open chat in a new browser window: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/ontolog_20100910
 * 3. Download presentations for each speaker here: http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ConferenceCall_2010_09_10#nid2GTM
 * or, 3.1 access our shared-screen vnc server, if you are not behind a corporate firewall